Oil Grade Sensitivity

[4WD]

For some here, heads is correct.

Like an orange can (or something like that) …
The “20 bad“ here is really beyond reason …

 

[Jetronic]

I remember several years ago, a friend of mine had a Opel Astra 1.4 with the GM Ecotec engine in it that ran like a dream. He was unfortunate too put a 20w-50 oil in it and the engine made lots of valve train noises. He then put in the right spec oil in it, i believe it was a 5W-30 viscosity oil and the engine was smooth as butter again.

and the engine didn't make valve train noises with the 5w-30 during warmup? if so the issue wasn't with the viscosity in the valve train.

 

[Focus82]

and the engine didn't make valve train noises with the 5w-30 during warmup? if so the issue wasn't with the viscosity in the valve train.

Just valve train noises with the 20w-50 no noises with 5w-30. I would think it may be a viscosity thing but I'm not a technician on oil viscosity and so on and I'm still learning

 

[Jetronic]

Just valve train noises with the 20w-50 no noises with 5w-30. I would think it may be a viscosity thing but I'm not a technician on oil viscosity and so on and I'm still learning

the 5w30 at 150F is thicker than the 20w50 at 200F. If it was a viscosity thing, the 20w50 would make noise all the time (as it did from your observation) and the 5w30 would do it until a certain temperature.

 

[Focus82]

Corrections: don't know if he had normal operation temp with 20w-50 soo that question is unknown unfortunately.

But i guess you have right.

 

[gfh77665]

The “20 bad“ here is really beyond reason …

That's disingenuous. Who, exactly, is saying "20 BAD here???" Pretty much no one.

Thin oils are CAFE inspired and mandated. Period. No one can dispute that. Thin oils are not for maximum protection or longevity, they are about incremental fuel economy gains.

Don't make the straw man argument that "so you saying my car will blow up on 20wt???" That's so tired and wrong. No one is saying that. Why can't the thin oil advocates just get it right? Dang.

 

[PimTac]

That's disingenuous. Who, exactly, is saying "20 BAD here???" Pretty much no one.

Thin oils are CAFE inspired and mandated. Period. No one can dispute that. Thin oils are not for maximum protection or longevity, they are about incremental fuel economy gains.

Don't make the straw man argument that "so you saying my car will blow up on 20wt???" That's so tired and wrong. No one is saying that. Why can't the thin oil advocates just get it right? Dang.

But my engine runs so smooth and quiet on 0w20 I have to check the tachometer to make sure it is indeed running.

It’s the best of both worlds. I get excellent fuel economy and a super quiet running engine which tells me the lubrication is sufficient.

 

[gfh77665]

...which tells me the lubrication is sufficient.

0w-20 gives you "sufficient" lubrication! Well bully for you!

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

0w-20 gives you "sufficient" lubrication! Well bully for you!

I still have a 01' Mercury Sable Duratec with 235,500 miles on it that has spent the majority of it's life on SJ-SN rated 5W-20 with some syn 0W-20 and 5W-30 thrown in for good measure. I think it's more than "sufficient"...

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

That's disingenuous. Who, exactly, is saying "20 BAD here???" Pretty much no one.

Thin oils are CAFE inspired and mandated. Period. No one can dispute that. Thin oils are not for maximum protection or longevity, they are about incremental fuel economy gains.

Don't make the straw man argument that "so you saying my car will blow up on 20wt???" That's so tired and wrong. No one is saying that. Why can't the thin oil advocates just get it right? Dang.

Except those oil weights predate CAFE and were recommended for winter applications in the past. And 5W-30 was also a "thin CAFE" oil 20 years ago. As with 5W-20 that has been run in engines since 1998 and no one has shown any real differences in wear, warranty claims, and longevity...

 

[tasch72]

What gives everyone the idea modern engines are so oil grade sensitive?

General design specs call for them to work from -40 to +122F. At startup temps the difference is beyond huge. While they are liquid cooled you will see a significant difference in operating temps between 5000 lb at -40 on flat ground and 19500 lb at +122F on a 7% Grade regardless. While I can certainly see the argument for 0W-20 at one extreme.and 15W-40 at the other I think the reality is that it is relatively a minor difference when you look at the operating viscosity an engine is designed to deal with.

Anecdotal evidence, but I have a 1999 Mustang V6 which really does not like Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum 5w-30 (both of which are notoriously thin for an xw-30) and would ping like a bag of glass bottles were set loose in the top end of the motor. But, when I switched to M1 Vanilla, RGT, or Supertech, the pinging went away.

I can only imagine that the problem would be worse on a 5w-20, which was spec'ed for 2001-2004 mustangs with no known changes to those 3.8 motors or the 4.6's of the same generation.

 

[Accent Abuser]

That's disingenuous. Who, exactly, is saying "20 BAD here???" Pretty much no one.

Thin oils are CAFE inspired and mandated. Period. No one can dispute that. Thin oils are not for maximum protection or longevity, they are about incremental fuel economy gains.

Don't make the straw man argument that "so you saying my car will blow up on 20wt???" That's so tired and wrong. No one is saying that. Why can't the thin oil advocates just get it right? Dang.

It might not blow up, but I want to get a million miles out of my car, no way will 20 get me there. The less often the metal parts come in contact the better.

 

[OilReport99]

It might not blow up, but I want to get a million miles out of my car, no way will 20 get me there. The less often the metal parts come in contact the better.

Wake me up when you reach 900,000 miles. I’ll check on this thread again.

 

[OVERKILL]

Anecdotal evidence, but I have a 1999 Mustang V6 which really does not like Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum 5w-30 (both of which are notoriously thin for an xw-30) and would ping like a bag of glass bottles were set loose in the top end of the motor. But, when I switched to M1 Vanilla, RGT, or Supertech, the pinging went away.

I can only imagine that the problem would be worse on a 5w-20, which was spec'ed for 2001-2004 mustangs with no known changes to those 3.8 motors or the 4.6's of the same generation.

How is the oil grade selected impacting the ignition timing or reducing the octane rating of your fuel? (hint: it isn't).

It's possible for you to have experienced some increased engine noise, but this is the equivalent of you airing up your tires to placard and your transmission slipping.

 

[PimTac]

Wake me up when you reach 900,000 miles. I’ll check on this thread again.

I doubt we will have to wait that long even.

 

[PimTac]

0w-20 gives you "sufficient" lubrication! Well bully for you!

What more do you want? We are not seeing mass failures of engines due to lighter grades of oils. I would suggest that any failures we do see are attributed to owners neglect and or poor engine quality.

0w20 has been around for quite some time now. There has been plenty of time to see any adverse effects on engines. But where are they?

 

[ka9mnx]

I can only imagine that the problem would be worse on a 5w-20, which was spec'ed for 2001-2004 mustangs with no known changes to those 3.8 motors or the 4.6's of the same generation.

Actually, my Ranger (back spec'd) and my 4Runner (approved) engines run smoother and quieter on ST Syn 0w-20 than they did on ST Syn 5w-30.

 

[tasch72]

How is the oil grade selected impacting the ignition timing or reducing the octane rating of your fuel? (hint: it isn't).

It's possible for you to have experienced some increased engine noise, but this is the equivalent of you airing up your tires to placard and your transmission slipping.

Did I say that it did either of those? No. There isn't even a knock sensor on a Ford 3.8 to pull timing for preignition.

My statement was that there was increased engine noise when running Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum, best described as glass bottles pinging together. Can I confirm this was spark knock? No I don't have HP Tuners to see what was going on.

A similar noise is well-documented for these motors, with the "fix" being to install a fuel filter in the PCV return line or install a catch can.

 

[OVERKILL]

Did I say that it did either of those? No. There isn't even a knock sensor on a Ford 3.8 to pull timing for preignition.

My statement was that there was increased engine noise when running Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum, best described as glass bottles pinging together. Can I confirm this was spark knock? No I don't have HP Tuners to see what was going on.

A similar noise is well-documented for these motors, with the "fix" being to install a fuel filter in the PCV return line or install a catch can.

You said it was pinging:

would ping like a bag of glass bottles were set loose in the top end of the motor. But, when I switched to M1 Vanilla, RGT, or Supertech, the pinging went away.

Pinging (spark knock) is caused by either too much ignition timing or too low of octane, neither of which is impacted by your selection of oil. That was my point. Perhaps use a term that doesn't have a proper formal meaning next time if you are just attempting to be descriptive and not noting the occurrence of a specific event or phenomena.

 

[tasch72]

You said it was pinging:


Pinging (spark knock) is caused by either too much ignition timing or too low of octane, neither of which is impacted by your selection of oil. That was my point. Perhaps use a term that doesn't have a proper formal meaning next time if you are just attempting to be descriptive and not noting the occurrence of a specific event or phenomena.

Duly noted. I appreciate your insights