I am just restoring a 1957 Triumph 500 flathead (6 to 1 compression, single carb) and want to use a synthetic oil in it. There have been a lot who say that, because it has flat tappets on the cam, it needs a conventional oil with lots of Zinc in it. Is this true? Surely the synthetic is better than any conventional oil.
Oil for classic Triumph
- Thread starter Dubdoc
- Start date
- Status
I'd run an HDEO 15w40 and install an oil filter if it doesn't have one.
A group III oil should be no problem but I would stay away from synthetics with a high ester content if you intend to use any RTV in the engine. What are you using to seal the engine cases?
Being pre unit construction oil shearing from the gearbox is a non issue but you will get some from the primary chain, 20w50 with high zinc would be what I look for. The sump screen seems to be adequate for these old timers but you could fit a Morgo filter is you want to add a spin on but the originality is gone. The last Brit bike I did the engine on was an A10, slightly different but similar in many respects.
I would look thru the motorcycle VOA's and check zinc levels in whats available. If your not comfortable with what you find, Lucas makes a zinc additive to increase zinc levels. I just watched a video of an Engine builder "Nicks Garage" a guy from Canada who used the stuff in a 318 Chrysler motor he was working on to boost the zinc level, because it was a flat tappet engine. The guy runs a auto performance shop and seems to know his stuff.,,
I am using RTV on the cases. What does High-ester content do to that? Is there a synthetic with low ester? Can I add zinc to synthetic, and why zinc at all?
Yes you can use a zinc additive with synthetic, with the old flat tappets it prevents exess wear on the tappet face and cam lobes. All RTV is not created equal and many are not fully compatible with the higher ester content found in some oils, this would be usually be found in some of the "true" synthetics. Many oils contain some small amounts of esters which is no problem but in higher amounts it can and many times does turn the RTV all soggy causing it to loose the bond and leak.
In the case of a split crankcase it is in full contact with the oil all the time. For split cases depending on the condition of the mating surfaces (they must be almost flawless) I would prefer am anaerobic sealer or poly sealer like Hylomar which does not have any issues.
Edit: You can look at the compatibility of esters here. Note, not all esters are incompatible but as with RTV how would you know what the exact formulation is.
https://www.kisling.com/wp-content/...ance_tables/Resistance table RTV Silikone.pdf
In the case of a split crankcase it is in full contact with the oil all the time. For split cases depending on the condition of the mating surfaces (they must be almost flawless) I would prefer am anaerobic sealer or poly sealer like Hylomar which does not have any issues.
Edit: You can look at the compatibility of esters here. Note, not all esters are incompatible but as with RTV how would you know what the exact formulation is.
https://www.kisling.com/wp-content/...ance_tables/Resistance table RTV Silikone.pdf
Last edited:
A good 20W-50 would be perfect. We used to get a lot of cam and follower wear on Triumphs, of course we didn't know why and there was not much selection of oil back then. This is only a single cam, but still a similar design to the other twins. We used to lap the cases together with grinding paste...the flat filter plate on the bottom was the cause of many leaks. Not like the ohv Triumph twins inside, more like the early 350 twin - crankshaft bushes and no bearings, not split rods, bushes again.
My thought, being a non shared sump, Valvoline VR1 20w50. Conventional oil and has good zinc and phos numbers. Valvoline recommends not using it in a shared sump because of “friction modifiers”, but would be fine in your Triumph. However, I have not read of an issue yet with a VR1 of any variety having issues in a shared sump despite what Valvoline says. My thought, it is to steer folks to their MC specific oils, but they are not near as high in Z/P content.
Motul 300V and change often. And do not worry if it leaks. They all do. Please post up some pictures of your restore.
300V would be a good choice, used oil analysis show good zinc and phosphorus, however with the old air-cooled lump of an engine, any oil is going to be dirty long before it “wears out” and you will not be doing longer OCI’s that a synthetic would be perfect for. Is 300V available in 20w50?
Dino Valvoline VR1 20w50.
Dino Valvoline VR1 20w50.
Oooh, alternator too ! That looks like the first alt used on the '53 T'bird - the stator mounted on the outer case, and made it a bit of a pain to remove. From '54 the stator mounted on the inner primary case...but I can't see them using the outdated version for these later TRW's. We never got the TRW here, so I've never seen one in the flesh...I had an M20, so love these post war sidevalves.
VR-1 gets my vote. I have used it in several vintage BMW bikes for years with no issues.
You are correct. The stator is mounted on the outer case. A thing of beauty. I love these old sidevalves too.
Attachments
Got your primary link clip on backwards.
Sometime in the lateish '70's I was walking past our local Auto Electrical shop, and in their bargain bin was a brand new, still in grease paper wrapping, early primary mounted Alternator - $10 ! I bought it and gave it to a mate with a '53 T'bird for his birthday.
Sometime in the lateish '70's I was walking past our local Auto Electrical shop, and in their bargain bin was a brand new, still in grease paper wrapping, early primary mounted Alternator - $10 ! I bought it and gave it to a mate with a '53 T'bird for his birthday.
Sorry, but that's never been off. It's as built by Triumph. How should it be?
You want to flip it around so the closed end goes in the direction of the chain. Considering it's in an enclosed cover I would not concern myself with it. On your final drive then yes you would want to flip it around.
BTW, That bike if really looking good. I have never seen a Triumph flat head before.
Agree ... no sticks, etc inside the enclosed case to strip the master link clip off like there could be on the final drive chain on a trail bike going through the woods.
- Status
