Oil for boosting oil pressure in 1950s V8

[ARCOgraphite]

I didn't do anything to any oil passages to valvetrain.

Everyone is correct, the small mods I did only opened up oil passages to the bearings. So shouldn't have any effects on oil pressure. I'm tempted to remove the pump and inspect it. They are cheap, and I may just put another in.

I would blueprint it and tighten it up. You would have to do that with any new one. IIRC Melling HV FORD are only about 20 - 25% more volume. Stock should be fine. Used stock pumps up to well over 400hp on the FE. HV pumps eats HP. pumping oil is not free and shearing it in bypass is not good at all.

Have fun.

p.s: that motor doesn't want a 50 in it. I would run a ho hum 10W30 HD mixed fleet dino for break in with a break-in additive. for the first couple oil dumps. Rotella Triple was a go to oil. I cant find it anymore. I hear Tractor Supply carries it.

 

[OVERKILL]

I actually didn't write down what my rod bearing clearances were, I measure with a micrometer and a bore gauge to calculate bearing clearance. Double check with plastigauge on a bearing or two.

Rod bearings were what I suspected, but it sounds like you believe they are factory spec.

What happened with the factory oil pump, was it in bad shape?

 

[kschachn]

p.s: that motor doesn't want a 50 in it. I would run a ho hum 10W30 HD mixed fleet dino for break in with a break-in additive. for the first couple oil dumps. Rotella Triple was a go to oil. I cant find it anymore. I hear Tractor Supply carries it.

On the other hand it would be an inexpensive experiment if he wanted to try. No Mobil 1, no Amsoil, no boutique oil needed. Just the least expensive 50-grade available at Walmart. Had it been done it would have ended the debate over grade after the first post. It's not going to harm the motor in any way.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

On the other hand it would be an inexpensive experiment if he wanted to try. No Mobil 1, no Amsoil, no boutique oil needed. Just the least expensive 50-grade available at Walmart. Had it been done it would have ended the debate over grade after the first post. It's not going to harm the motor in any way.

Yes, I agree it would be. But if you are not going to run that grade, why try. It's just a big power sapper and hard on the cam gears and bearings.
Compromise on a Motorcycle 4T ?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes but what I meant was that if the flow is sufficient to supply the bearings with adequate lubricant then increasing the flow will not lubricate more better.

I guess I just get tired of people thinking flow is always the problem and more flow fixes everything.

More pressure supply to the bearings does make more oil flow go through them, but it doesn't really make them work better. The only possible advantage to more oil pressure and resultung flow is more cooling effect. More oil pressure due to a higher volume oil pump also ensures more flow headroom to all force fed lubricated parts.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Its pitiful that your thread turned into chest thumbing armchair wannabe engineers battling it out. Same ol' same ol' in every thread.

That's what happens when misconceptions start popping up in technical threads.

 

[Oily_Thing]

Tighten up your bearing clearances.

 

[ZeeOSix]

5. That offset might've been the equivalent of oil flow balancing restrictors.

As touched on earlier, the offset would have to be pretty drastic to cause the offset blockage to act as "flow restricting orifices", and the effect would also depend on the bearing clearance and the oil flow volume the journal bearings want to naturally flow from rotation. It could be that it's a design feature to help balance the flow through the oiling system.

If the bearings wanted to flow more oil than the "blocking orifice" could supply, then there would be an oil supply issue to the bearings. If they did act as flow restrictors, the effect would be much more noticeable as higher RPM, and not really that noticeable at idle. With all other factors held constant, a low oil pressure at idle pretty much points to a weak pump, and/or a less restrictive oiling system.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Tighten up your bearing clearances.

Please read the entire thread.....

 

[burgessdg]

I rebuilt my 1959 Ford FE 352 engine last year. I opted for a melling standard output oil pump and standard bearing clearances. Thus engine has hydraulic flat tappet lifters. I've run Amsoil Z-Rod 10w-30 but I have alarmingly low oil pressure, 10psi hot idle, and 25psi going down the road at 2000 RPM. Oil pressure is measured at the oil filter adapter which is obviously the closest to the oil pump. Cold pressures are 45psi 650RPM idle, and 60psi at 2000.

I wish the oil pan were easier to remove and I'd simply install a high volume oil pump, but that is a bit of a challenge while the engine is in the car due to very tight cross member clearances.

Is the Z-Rod 10w-40 much thicker, or should I opt for the wicked expensive 20w-50?

I'm not completely sold on using a boutique oil for this application, I just have an Amsoil account and put 6 qts of Z-Rod on my last order. I'm open to other options. I could just Rotella 15w-40 or something similar. I put roughly 2000 miles a year on it, and was planning on a biannual oil change with the Z-Rod, but could do something else.

What do you guys recommend? This thing isn't a hot rod and will never see over 4000 RPM.

Find the source of your internal oil leak.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Tighten up your bearing clearances.

What are his bearing clearances. Look before you leap, OIly. The measurements are where they should be.

BB ford-edsels are notorious for low idle pressure.

Funny my 6500w Generator works it heart out under load with 28 oz of oil in the sump and no oil pressure - since it doesn'teven have an oil pump

And she hasn't blown up yet in over 17 years.

 

[40Deluxe]

To me it doesnt sound horrible for this engine, 10 psi hot idle is actually not bad. I would try the 10w40 to may increase hot pressure at 2K but the engine will not have a lube fail at 25 psi@2000 rpm.

These old school stock gear pumps didnt make much pressure, the oil pressure in an old Buick big block would shock you it is so low.

Agree with Trav, 10psi at idle not terrible, try the 10/40 and make sure to put a bottle of zinc in with it.

 

[Cujet]

Any update from the OP?

The very first thing I would have done is switch to M1, 15W-50. It is in no way "to viscous" for that engine.

 

[FordFETruck]

Once again, the mods he did are SIGNIFICANT to an FE. Open one up and look at the main bearings. You'd swear you have the incorrect bearings or they were trying to restrict flow to them by covering half the hole in the block. Or it's that quality casting Ford always offered.

How these things ran without spinning bearings is beyond me. Don't get me started on the cam bearings.

They should have been known as the Subarus of the 50s and 60s.

I know what you are talking about, the bearing shells block off part of the oiling hole in the main bearing saddles. I don't remember which, either my factory 1964 Ford service manual or the circa 1968-1969 Ford/Autolite performance spec/tricks book I have shows a picture of that and explains that it was intentional.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Any update from the OP?

The very first thing I would have done is switch to M1, 15W-50. It is in no way "to viscous" for that engine.

Update! It's my fault. The oil dipstick is a modified GM transmission (cable) which I pull before every drive. Well yhe design of the cast zinc end made it look like I had oil.... it was 2qts low. I can't simply pull the cold dipstick, I must wipe it off and then reinstall for a reading due to the deep cast lines and the 30° angle of it in the pan. It's up on my lift right now or I'd post a picture. Balancing tires and general inspection as it's been a rainy week. I don't drive it in the rain, too much chrome to polish!

This is an open breather (road draught tube) engine and I assume most of that oil went there. I have no leaks, and I'm assuming some made it past the rings, as they may not have been totally seated last year.

The I put maybe 2500 miles on it a year and just add oil when needed. It's not much now. I really don't drive it regularly enough to know oil consumption/mile.

Lessons learned

 

[andyd]

20w-50 or straight 40,50 or 60. Before I knew better and thought thicker was better my cars got 20w-50 in winter and the 60 in summer.

For stuff from the'50s 20w50 dino is just fine.

 

[vwmaniaman]

Of course we are beating oil pressure to death but flow is what really matters. Remember the Kawasaki 900 that was built back in the 70's. It only had 9psi as built and it was a fast long lasting motorcycle

 

[zray1]

Of course we are beating oil pressure to death but flow is what really matters. Remember the Kawasaki 900 that was built back in the 70's. It only had 9psi as built and it was a fast long lasting motorcycles

It had a roller bearing bottom end. Those don’t build pressure . Only the cam bearings were of the “plain bearing type”.
Many Japanese motorcycles of the 1960’s / 1970’s had the same engineering and the same low pressure oil systems

 

[ZeeOSix]

It had a roller bearing bottom end. Those don’t build pressure . Only the cam bearings were of the “plain bearing type”.
Many Japanese motorcycles of the 1960’s / 1970’s had the same engineering and the same low pressure oil systems

Even in plain journal bearings, the feed oil pressure doesn't contribute much of anything to the supporting force of the hydrodynamic oil wedge inside the bearing. As long as adequate oil volume is supplied and the bearing is healthy, the hydrodynamic wedge will support the journal within the bearing.

 

[zray1]

only pointing out that roller bearing engines are typically if not universally low pressure engines. Plain bearing engines typically have much higher pressure oiling systems in comparison.

Not commenting on pros and cons of each.

Z