Okay everybody, I bought 5 quarts of PP at O'Reilly and a Wix filter for $29.99. There's $10 in rebates on the oil and a $10 gift card from O'Reilly. I'll see how she likes it, and if it runs smoothly it'll be what I run for the long haul! Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Oil for a REAL winter, 5w30, gm 3.8
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Originally Posted By: addyguy
M1 AFE 0W-30 will be the best in winter.
AFAIK, has the lowest CCS and MRV values of any 0W-30 on the market.
This
M1 AFE 0W-30 will be the best in winter.
AFAIK, has the lowest CCS and MRV values of any 0W-30 on the market.
This
The PP is a solid choice for your winter regime, especially at a net $9.99 for the OCI!
The daytime temps will always be warmer than those seen overnight, so the engine will not be nearly as cold after sitting out all day as it would be if you actually left it sitting out on a clear night after a good snow. Since you garage the car, overnight lows aren't a problem for you.
After all of the above, if you want something that might be a little thinner on starts than a 5W-30 in the cold you'll expose the engine to, M1 AFE 0W-30 would be my pick. A 0W is probably not really needed for the coldest starts this engine will see based upon your description of use, but it certainly won't hurt anything and this oil does have really good cold numbers.
If you're willing to spring for a syn, you can also catch this one with a $12.00 MIR on a jug through the end of October, making this oil a steal. Mobil rebates are also totally reliable in my experience, unlike those from Brand S.
After all of the above, if you want something that might be a little thinner on starts than a 5W-30 in the cold you'll expose the engine to, M1 AFE 0W-30 would be my pick. A 0W is probably not really needed for the coldest starts this engine will see based upon your description of use, but it certainly won't hurt anything and this oil does have really good cold numbers.
If you're willing to spring for a syn, you can also catch this one with a $12.00 MIR on a jug through the end of October, making this oil a steal. Mobil rebates are also totally reliable in my experience, unlike those from Brand S.
The 3800 seems to be one of the most legitimately reliable passenger car engines out there. Every 3800 I've seen says 10w30 on the cap, and I've serviced three recently with a combined 650K on them that had either poor maintenance (like 2 qts. low and zero warmup time, ever) or regular but not what I'd call meticulous (conventional 10w30) maint. and run like a top. My understanding is that full synthetics leave the best oil film, so a good synthetic 5w30 should be ample protection for your engine. While 0w30 probably won't hurt it I don't think it's necessary. I seem to recall that Schaeffer's has a lot of moly (slipperier, more resilient oil film) in it?
In 2003 or 2004 GM changed its recommendations for the 3800. All series 2 engines built after this point and all series 3 engines get a 5w30 cap and a recommendation for 5w30. But, yes, you're right about the older ones. My manual says to use 5w30 year round, with no provision for 10w30. Prior to this switch, I think they "recommended" 10w30 and put it on the oil cap, but you were supposed to use 5w30 in the winter, effectively creating a need for changes before winter and before summer. Mine isn't that way, though. And, yes, gotta love the 3800!!
Originally Posted By: TmanP
In 2003 or 2004 GM changed its recommendations for the 3800. All series 2 engines built after this point and all series 3 engines get a 5w30 cap and a recommendation for 5w30. But, yes, you're right about the older ones. My manual says to use 5w30 year round, with no provision for 10w30. Prior to this switch, I think they "recommended" 10w30 and put it on the oil cap, but you were supposed to use 5w30 in the winter, effectively creating a need for changes before winter and before summer. Mine isn't that way, though. And, yes, gotta love the 3800!!
Ahh, I see. The newest of the three I mentioned is an '04 so you're right. I wonder if it was just a fuel econony/EPA thing or if engine clearances changed?
In 2003 or 2004 GM changed its recommendations for the 3800. All series 2 engines built after this point and all series 3 engines get a 5w30 cap and a recommendation for 5w30. But, yes, you're right about the older ones. My manual says to use 5w30 year round, with no provision for 10w30. Prior to this switch, I think they "recommended" 10w30 and put it on the oil cap, but you were supposed to use 5w30 in the winter, effectively creating a need for changes before winter and before summer. Mine isn't that way, though. And, yes, gotta love the 3800!!
Ahh, I see. The newest of the three I mentioned is an '04 so you're right. I wonder if it was just a fuel econony/EPA thing or if engine clearances changed?
While not the 3.8, my 2006 Caddy 3.6L gets a 10w30 synthetic as does my 2015 Silverado 2500 6.0L. Not quite as cold as MN or WI most times, but Iowa still in the running for cold compared to them. My vehicles get a heated garage in winter and never sit outside not running for more than about 5-6 hours 2-3 times a week. Minimum 13 mile trip any time they leave the garage. The only reason that 10w30 is no longer recommended is that dexos1 chose to not allow 10w30, so GM has abandoned it as a recommendation. Really too bad, since many 10w30 synthetics have substantially lower NOACK than the 0w30 and 5w30 variants and sometimes are a little more shear stable.
Mobil I 0W-30 AFE
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-0W-30-...-5-qt./17034369
This. But also check the rebates section, I think you can get a $10 rebate check making it less than many conventionals...
Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-0W-30-...-5-qt./17034369
This. But also check the rebates section, I think you can get a $10 rebate check making it less than many conventionals...
Unfortunately, this 5W30 table is old, but it might still be useful.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
Both of the Pennzoil products shown are definitely obsolete, replaced by the GTL PU and PUP.
Word is that the Castrol Edge has been reformulated, but I am not completely sure of that.
Oils on this list that stood out for me for a combination of lower NOACK, lower cold viscosity, and a decent TBN were
Mobil 1
QSUD
Shell Formula
PU (known obsolete)
PP (known obsolete)
I believe the new PU and PUP would also make that list. I think the PQIA may have actually tested one or both, but good luck finding the results.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html
Both of the Pennzoil products shown are definitely obsolete, replaced by the GTL PU and PUP.
Word is that the Castrol Edge has been reformulated, but I am not completely sure of that.
Oils on this list that stood out for me for a combination of lower NOACK, lower cold viscosity, and a decent TBN were
Mobil 1
QSUD
Shell Formula
PU (known obsolete)
PP (known obsolete)
I believe the new PU and PUP would also make that list. I think the PQIA may have actually tested one or both, but good luck finding the results.
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
It's not supposed to 0W30s are made for the temperatures that those freezer tests are carried out at.
Honestly, and again, I have no idea why people consider a 5W test at -40C relevent when there are grades actually designed for that temperature.
Would mixing them with an egg and vinegar and seeing which made a better mayo give you information about how they performed in an engine (TBN and dispersency) ?
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
It's not supposed to 0W30s are made for the temperatures that those freezer tests are carried out at.
Honestly, and again, I have no idea why people consider a 5W test at -40C relevent when there are grades actually designed for that temperature.
Would mixing them with an egg and vinegar and seeing which made a better mayo give you information about how they performed in an engine (TBN and dispersency) ?
I also have a 2006 Buick, but I have the Northstar v8. GM also says to use a 0w30 for extreme cold temps. Pick your brand. Top CHoice? Full syn 0w30.
It was that 2004-5 Series 2 3800s shared many common parts with the series 3. I believe the engine clearances, and I think actually the oil pressure specs, changed. Also, 5w30s has gotten a lot better by that point and were much more shear-stable.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
It's not supposed to 0W30s are made for the temperatures that those freezer tests are carried out at.
Honestly, and again, I have no idea why people consider a 5W test at -40C relevent when there are grades actually designed for that temperature.
Would mixing them with an egg and vinegar and seeing which made a better mayo give you information about how they performed in an engine (TBN and dispersency) ?
Well, for the moment I feel constrained to 5W30s due to Subaru's recommendation for my engine and the fact that I am still under warranty. Since I have to deal with some very cold temps (weekend skier who parks outside overnight in the White Mountains), I like to find 5W30s with good cold performance. Even for when I am "free" in less than 10k miles, I am still concerned by what seem to be generally higher NOACK results for, say, 0W30 compared to 5W30 oils of the same brand.
I'd really like for some of the warm weather guys here to see what a really cold start is like before blithely dismissing cold viscosity. I ski less than 25 miles from Mt. Washington...granted, I do not see conditions as bad as that bizarre microclimate, but -30F overnight is not that unusual. And, yes, I might start my car early in the morning after a night like that, as I am almost guaranteed to have little company on the slopes (although I might have to warm up after each and every run). That painfully slow crank...the car shaking and shuddering...how reluctant it seems to actually move, even after a warmup. I used dino in my old RAV4 (V6, 5W30) and then tried a synth or semisynth change just for the heck of it...even further South, I sometimes thought my car had failed to start in the cold because it was actually somewhat smooth once it caught. Took me a while to make a connection to the different oil type...similarly, going to M1 and QSUD 5W30 when I started changing my own oil in the FXT made the ski weekend starts noticeably less painful compared to whatever synth the dealer was using. Didn't even know that M1 had good cold viscosity for a 5W30 until I had been using it for a while...
Of course, I'm still going to hear some guy in Miami or the Southern tip of Texas tell that me 15W40 is fine for anybody outside of the Arctic Circle and maybe I just need a new battery. Sure, a new battery might help with the cranking...the issue is you rarely know that your battery is getting weak until you actually get it in the cold. Why not just use an oil that will strain it less in the chill and still protect your engine very well in other conditions?
Believe me, I understand that my application is not typical and I would probably be fine with 10W30 if I did not ski, given that my car is garaged overnight in a less harsh winter climate at home. Just saying that dealing with really cold conditions is way different than reading about them.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
It's not supposed to 0W30s are made for the temperatures that those freezer tests are carried out at.
Honestly, and again, I have no idea why people consider a 5W test at -40C relevent when there are grades actually designed for that temperature.
Would mixing them with an egg and vinegar and seeing which made a better mayo give you information about how they performed in an engine (TBN and dispersency) ?
Well, for the moment I feel constrained to 5W30s due to Subaru's recommendation for my engine and the fact that I am still under warranty. Since I have to deal with some very cold temps (weekend skier who parks outside overnight in the White Mountains), I like to find 5W30s with good cold performance. Even for when I am "free" in less than 10k miles, I am still concerned by what seem to be generally higher NOACK results for, say, 0W30 compared to 5W30 oils of the same brand.
I'd really like for some of the warm weather guys here to see what a really cold start is like before blithely dismissing cold viscosity. I ski less than 25 miles from Mt. Washington...granted, I do not see conditions as bad as that bizarre microclimate, but -30F overnight is not that unusual. And, yes, I might start my car early in the morning after a night like that, as I am almost guaranteed to have little company on the slopes (although I might have to warm up after each and every run). That painfully slow crank...the car shaking and shuddering...how reluctant it seems to actually move, even after a warmup. I used dino in my old RAV4 (V6, 5W30) and then tried a synth or semisynth change just for the heck of it...even further South, I sometimes thought my car had failed to start in the cold because it was actually somewhat smooth once it caught. Took me a while to make a connection to the different oil type...similarly, going to M1 and QSUD 5W30 when I started changing my own oil in the FXT made the ski weekend starts noticeably less painful compared to whatever synth the dealer was using. Didn't even know that M1 had good cold viscosity for a 5W30 until I had been using it for a while...
Of course, I'm still going to hear some guy in Miami or the Southern tip of Texas tell that me 15W40 is fine for anybody outside of the Arctic Circle and maybe I just need a new battery. Sure, a new battery might help with the cranking...the issue is you rarely know that your battery is getting weak until you actually get it in the cold. Why not just use an oil that will strain it less in the chill and still protect your engine very well in other conditions?
Believe me, I understand that my application is not typical and I would probably be fine with 10W30 if I did not ski, given that my car is garaged overnight in a less harsh winter climate at home. Just saying that dealing with really cold conditions is way different than reading about them.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
Be careful, those are pour point tests, and poor ones at that. There's a reason MRV is far more useful. I can point out a 15w-40 example that has a better pour point than a 5w-30. I'd still chose the 5w-30 in a Saskatchewan winter.
Several of the freezer tests on the web.
Some folks like to discredit those - regardless - the Mobil 1 does well on these simple tests.
Don't see how an oil pump could pick up 3/4 of them in some of these videos.
Be careful, those are pour point tests, and poor ones at that. There's a reason MRV is far more useful. I can point out a 15w-40 example that has a better pour point than a 5w-30. I'd still chose the 5w-30 in a Saskatchewan winter.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Understand - it's not even a pour test - this guy put it in a household freezer - most are 0F. Some brands look like grease.
Yes, not very sophisticated - but hard to picture that in a crankcase when it's rated to go lower.
One thing you give up on Ow 30 M1 is ZDDP. Seasonal?
Yes, not very sophisticated - but hard to picture that in a crankcase when it's rated to go lower.
One thing you give up on Ow 30 M1 is ZDDP. Seasonal?
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