Oil flow rate. Plastic E core v. metal core filters.

New BITOG rule. No posting about “flow” in an oil filter unless you can prove you understand how a positive displacement pump works. Should be stickied at the top. Another thread I read today has a guy wanting to put on a slightly larger oil filter because it would “flow better.”
 
New BITOG rule. No posting about “flow” in an oil filter unless you can prove you understand how a positive displacement pump works. Should be stickied at the top. Another thread I read today has a guy wanting to put on a slightly larger oil filter because it would “flow better.”
K&N says their filters flow more oil, so who are we supposed to believe?
 
I use OG Fram Titanium FS5s on my high compression 565.

One of my buddies uses a regular cellulose media Wix on his turbo LS that runs 5.10s in the 1/8th mile.

Stop worrying about flow rates.
 
K&N says their filters flow more oil, so who are we supposed to believe?
More than every other oil filter made? 😄 Do they show on their site, or will they provide if asked, an actual flow vs dP curve?

What filter manufacuerures mean when they say their filter "flows more" or "flows better" is that the filter's flow vs dP curve is lower. Most filters will only vary a few PSI of dP at high flow rates with hot oil, so it won't matter on an engine.
 
More than every other oil filter made? 😄 Do they show on their site, or will they provide if asked, an actual flow vs dP curve?

What filter manufacuerures mean when they say their filter "flows more" or "flows better" is that the filter's flow vs dP curve is lower. Most filters will only vary a few PSI of dP at high flow rates with hot oil, so it won't matter on an engine.
So what’s the point of “racing” filters that are so porous they only catch rocks, birds and small children, and everything else gets through?
Wouldn’t those engines be better off with a normal 20 or so micron filter with a low bypass setting?
In that case, wouldn’t a larger filter be better than a smaller one which should reduce the chance of the filter going into bypass in the first place?
 
So what’s the point of “racing” filters that are so porous they only catch rocks, birds and small children, and everything else gets through?
Wouldn’t those engines be better off with a normal 20 or so micron filter with a low bypass setting?
In that case, wouldn’t a larger filter be better than a smaller one which should reduce the chance of the filter going into bypass in the first place?
extremely high volume oil pumps with very thick oil. a daily driver isn’t subjected to the oil flow/pressure a race engine is.
 
So what’s the point of “racing” filters that are so porous they only catch rocks, birds and small children, and everything else gets through?
Wouldn’t those engines be better off with a normal 20 or so micron filter with a low bypass setting?
In that case, wouldn’t a larger filter be better than a smaller one which should reduce the chance of the filter going into bypass in the first place?
Dry sump systems on drag racing engines
 
So what’s the point of “racing” filters that are so porous they only catch rocks, birds and small children, and everything else gets through?
Wouldn’t those engines be better off with a normal 20 or so micron filter with a low bypass setting?
In that case, wouldn’t a larger filter be better than a smaller one which should reduce the chance of the filter going into bypass in the first place?
Racing filters these days (like the Fram and Ford Racing Performance filters) are both pretty efficient, and also "flow well", meaning the dP is low at high flow rates. Compared to a standard oil filter, those racing filters will only have around 2-3 PSI less dP at high flow rates. On an engine that's running near redline for a very long time on a race track, that may help a little bit, but anyone designing a race engine oiling system isn't going to design it so it fails if an oil filter with 3 PSI more dP is used on it. If you want the ultimate "racing filter", use a 35u steel wire mesh filter, which have very little dP vs flow.

Here's an old spec sheet for the Ford Racing Performance FL820 filter. It's efficiency and flow is basically the same as the OG Ultra and the PureOne. The key to betting "high flow" (meaning less dP vs flow) with high efficiency media is to use a lot of media flow area.

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More dP vs flow comparisons. Obviously the oil viscosity will shift the dP vs flow curve up or down.
 
New BITOG rule. No posting about “flow” in an oil filter unless you can prove you understand how a positive displacement pump works. Should be stickied at the top. Another thread I read today has a guy wanting to put on a slightly larger oil filter because it would “flow better.”
Yes... BUT-old, worn/high mileage engines, with old, worn/slipping oil pumps, are a special case. Especially when the OPS is all the way at the end of the oiling circuit, top rear of the engine on LS ones. Ascent pretty much proved there is a difference in flow between different filters. Now, when I get that Melling HV pump, new pickup, & new oring on it then I can throw on anything I want!
 
Yes... BUT-old, worn/high mileage engines, with old, worn/slipping oil pumps, are a special case. Especially when the OPS is all the way at the end of the oiling circuit, top rear of the engine on LS ones.
The LS engine oil pressure sensor isn't at the end of the oiling circuit. The oil pressure sensor is located at the end of the main gallery after the oil filter - the top RH area of this figure.

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The LS engine oil pressure sensor isn't at the end of the oiling circuit. The oil pressure sensor is located at the end of the main gallery after the oil filter - the top RH area of this figure.

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Great, BEFORE the main & rod bearings! That makes me feel better! I'm just too used to the old school days when it was close to the oil filter, block bypass, etc. The weak oil pressure 6.0 is getting an AC Delco PF48 next time, if it doesn't make any difference it'll be oil pump time soon.
 
In case anybody is interested. Without cutting the filter open, the internals look the same as the Supertech filter except for the drain back valve. Its black on the champ filter verses orange on the supertech.

Sorry the camera doesn’t want to focus inside the filter that well.

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In case anybody is interested. Without cutting the filter open, the internals look the same as the Supertech filter except for the drain back valve. Its black on the champ filter verses orange on the supertech.

Could be wrong but my understanding was that Champ made Supertech filters

I prefer e-core filters because they haven't found a way to screw those up yet
 
In case anybody is interested. Without cutting the filter open, the internals look the same as the Supertech filter except for the drain back valve. Its black on the champ filter verses orange on the supertech.

Sorry the camera doesn’t want to focus inside the filter that well.

View attachment 227163

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That looks exactly like the filter I bought at Canadian Tire today except the one I got is painted black. Motormaster OE Plus MOPH10575, made in USA. The one I bought last week, MOPH8A, made in Mexico.
 
Great, BEFORE the main & rod bearings! That makes me feel better! I'm just too used to the old school days when it was close to the oil filter, block bypass, etc. The weak oil pressure 6.0 is getting an AC Delco PF48 next time, if it doesn't make any difference it'll be oil pump time soon.
It's still close enough to the filter, and there's a pretty big oil gallery between the filter and location of the oil pressure sensor. That location gives a good indication of the oil pressure at the inlet of the oiling system.

I relocated the oil pressure sensor on my LS6 (in the Z06) to a block right next to the oil filter, and never saw any difference in oil pressure on the digital pressure gauge on the dash.
 
Could be wrong but my understanding was that Champ made Supertech filters

I prefer e-core filters because they haven't found a way to screw those up yet
Where were you in 2010? E-core filters were complete garbage out of the gate. Media blowing through the very large openings and incomplete bonding of the "end caps". There was nowhere to go but up. That said, they do seem to have evolved into a serviceable budget filter.

Search the site for e-core failures to see more if you need to.

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Could be wrong but my understanding was that Champ made Supertech filters

I prefer e-core filters because they haven't found a way to screw those up yet
Yes. Some guys on their YouTube channels opened both AC Delco and Supertech filters and they were identical. The only difference was the sticker slapped on the blue can.
 
Took more pics, side by side. Supertech has the silicon drain back valve and the Champ has the nitrile rubber drain back valve. I also noticed on the pleats for the champ filter that one side appears to be slightly separated, hopefully the uploaded pic shows it. Guessing that’s the seam. Super tech doesn’t have the separated pleats.

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