Oil & Filter Thoughts

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by burla
Yeah, tell that to the guy who bought two 6.4's and had them both have cam fails.


Tell him what, that he doesn't have an SRT 6.4L? I'm pretty sure he's aware. Or are you speaking about your God complex?

Originally Posted by burla
The largest point in this silly conversation is there is no downside to using hearty oils. At least at that point you have done what you could. mic drop, carry on


I never said there was. I simply pointed out that the issue doesn't seem to exist on the SRT 6.4L on two different 0w-40's with different levels of moly. It's an observation about the moly content, as both lubricants likely have it sourced from Infineum. The SRT engine also has a different camshaft, as I'm sure you are aware, and likely heavier valve springs, both of which are points I believe we've discussed previously.

 

[Skippy722]

Who knew you could get so heated over oil for one particular engine family

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Who knew you could get so heated over oil for one particular engine family

This happens all the time with this particular subject.

It has been mentioned many times before that oil will not take care of a engine defect or design flaw. That is what is going on with these hemi engines from Fiat. It's been years. They've had plenty of time to figure out a solution.

A stouter oil will only postpone the inevitable.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Sounds like Chrysler needs to do some valve train redesign (actuation methods, metallurgy, loads distribution, oil supply stragity, etc). Other very high performance engines don't eat cams and need some unicorn oil formulation to survive.

 

[OVERKILL]

Per the valve spring difference theory:

- All the non-SRT V8's share the same valve springs, part # 68080909AB
- All the V8's with MDS share the same lifters, part # 5038788AC
- The 6.4L truck engine has its own cam, part # 5045517AC
- The 6.4L SRT engine has its own cam, part # 5038419AB
- The 6.4L SRT engine uses valve spring part # 5037382BC which is also spec'd for "Police" optioned Chargers

as well as the 6.2L HellKitty engine.

I'm wondering if spring pressure on the non-SRT engines is borderline marginal and valve float happens, the lifters don't like it, one seizes, and away she goes. It can't just be garbage lifters, because if it was, you'd see it similarly represented on the SRT engines, but you don't.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by PimTac

A stouter oil will only postpone the inevitable.


Progress right there, so you admit it will extend the life if the cam.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Sounds like Chrysler needs to do some valve train redesign (actuation methods, metallurgy, loads distribution, oil supply stragity, etc). Other very high performance engines don't eat cams and need some unicorn oil formulation to survive.


Comically though, it appears, the actual high performance version of the engine is either completely or mostly unaffected

So I don't think it's an engine design issue, I think it's either a part-spec issue that pertains to the lifters that's somehow mitigated by the higher spring pressure in the SRT version, or simply spring pressure itself as marginal in the non-SRT engine that allows for valve float, subsequent lifter damage, roller seizure, and subsequent lobe failure once the roller stops rolling on it.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Sounds like Chrysler needs to do some valve train redesign (actuation methods, metallurgy, loads distribution, oil supply stragity, etc). Other very high performance engines don't eat cams and need some unicorn oil formulation to survive.

When they had issues with the PentaStar heads they redesigned the heads with harder valve seats, new cam setup and changed the oil pump design slightly to flood the heads with oil. (IMO Bugs with a brand new engine design) This corrected the issue so they are quite capable of recognizing fault and doing something about it. (Don't forget warranty claims are a liability for them so they are inclined to do something about it, especially because they constantly seem to operate on the verge of bankruptcy) This is even more evidence that this problem with SOME Hemi's (Burla) are just a fly in the ointment as it were and completely normal when you are putting out this many engines, and not a systemic problem that Chrysler fails to admit or do anything about or else ALL HEMI's would be failing (Burla) in which case we would see warranty work out the wazoo, TSB's, new oil specifications (if moly made a difference to the problem) and a possible redesign like they did with the PentaStar (Burla) and warranty extensions for 10 years for existing older design PentaStar heads like my dad received a letter in the mail for his even though he has had 0 issues with his along with other owners (Burla). NONE OF THIS TOOK PLACE WITH THE HEMI's. WHY? BECAUSE IT'S A NON-ISSUE WITH THE MAJORITY OF HEMI'S OUT THERE AND AFFECTS A SMALL NUMBER. (Burla)

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by burla
Originally Posted by PimTac

A stouter oil will only postpone the inevitable.


Progress right there, so you admit it will extend the life if the cam.




I don't call it progress, it's a bandaid on something more serious.

Your response got cut off.

 

[JHZR2]

Bickering. Lock time.