Oil Filter Changes Using Synthetics

[Ken2]

The Mann filters I buy for the VW say right on the can (in German) that they are good for 18,000 miles. It can be done. I like Hastings/Baldwin filters.

The only way to know for sure if the filter is clogged and bypassing is to get an oil analysis done at high mileage. I doubt if any good filter will breakdown, but if silicone rubber isn't used, the rubber parts might harden and leak.


Ken

 

[terminaldegree]

Call me stubborn, but I wouldn't leave the same oil filter on my vehicle for 15,000 miles. I don't care what the brand is...

As an insight to my mindset, I also wouldn't run an engine oil in a car for over 10,000 miles under any circumstances. I'm one of those 3 month/3,000 mile people who converted to 5,000 miles after reading this site.

The cost difference between changing the same oil + filter every 10,000 miles versus every 15,000 is so little that I don't think it's worth the risk. [again, talking about regular passenger car usage and sump size]

 

[VWFox74]

I agree with terminaldegree, heck before I found this site, I used to change my oil every 2500 to 3000 miles using Mobil one and Pure one. My other vehicle a Beater VW Fox, I would change it every 500 to 1000 miles using Cheap Dyno and any oil filter on sale. I did it because I figured it I am going to get dirty changing oil, I mine as well do all my vehicles.

 

[Jonny Z]

quote:

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Originally posted by hardlymoving:
First post on this site.

I spoke with a chemical engineer at Mobil and he states that the oil filter need not be changed at all for Mobil's 15K mile extended synthetic; that the oil will breakdown before the filter does.

I contacted Redline about this claim and they're at a loss for words or an opinion. Redline maintains, along with Amsoil, that the filter be changed anywhere before 10k miles based on the quality of the filter. The Mobil engineer maintains his position based on tests conducted over 3 years on a fleet of automobiles of different types.

Any thoughts?

BTW, I use Hastings oil filters.

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Were those engineers you spoke to at Redline or Amsoil? I tend to believe the engineer that had test data to support his claim. Also, Mobil had nothing to gain to make a false claim - they sell filters too, and if a motor burns up, they are risking their reputation.

 

[hardlymoving]

First post on this site.

I spoke with a chemical engineer at Mobil and he states that the oil filter need not be changed at all for Mobil's 15K mile extended synthetic; that the oil will breakdown before the filter does.

I contacted Redline about this claim and they're at a loss for words or an opinion. Redline maintains, along with Amsoil, that the filter be changed anywhere before 10k miles based on the quality of the filter. The Mobil engineer maintains his position based on tests conducted over 3 years on a fleet of automobiles of different types.

Any thoughts?

BTW, I use Hastings oil filters.

 

[Ugly3]

I tend to believe Mobil, car makers have been recommending 10K+ mile intervals for oil filters for years.

 

[Mike_dup1]

There are many filters on the market, some much better than others. When the Mobil engineer gave you that opinion was he saying that held true for any filter or was he referring only to Mobil 1 branded filters (or ones that compare like K&N, Amsoil etc)?

Or did you come away from that conversation thinking he meant any old filter you wanted to put on there, no matter how cheaply made it was, would stand up?

An oil filter will pass many gallons of oil in 10,000 miles and if its not designed for it, could were out and become ineffective.

Amsoil states that if you use any other filter besides theirs, change at the vehicle mfg recommended intervals.

 

[vad]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:
An oil filter will pass many gallons of oil in 10,000 miles and if its not designed for it, could were out and become ineffective.

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Ineffective in what way?
Even the cheapest filter should easily last 15K.
With the high end oil filter you pay for the thicker canister, slightly better filtering media (maybe) and hyped up marketing.

 

[99]

If I were to leave the oil in for 15,000 miles, I would at least change the filter out at 7,500 miles or maybe even change it every 5,000 miles for piece of mind. Think about it, do you really think a filter can trap 15,000 miles worth of junk and still be 100% effective? The skeptic in me says no way, no how. That's just me though, it's your engine and your wallet. Go with your gut on this one.

 

[Master ACiD]

honda thinks you can go 15K miles on an oil filter, thats what my sisters car specs. actually their latest vehicles have 20K mile oil filter change intervals.

i dont think theres anything special about honda filters, i think they are just rebadged frams?
if a honda using a fram can go 20K miles on an oil filter, why cant any other engine?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by vad:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:
An oil filter will pass many gallons of oil in 10,000 miles and if its not designed for it, could were out and become ineffective.

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Ineffective in what way?
Even the cheapest filter should easily last 15K.
With the high end oil filter you pay for the thicker canister, slightly better filtering media (maybe) and hyped up marketing.

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I agree to an extent. If I am changing the oil at 6k or so I will go ahead and change the filter. I would "feel" better running a higher quality filter for a 15k mile interval just to decrease the risk of having an unknown filter failure for many miles.

 

[vad]

quote:

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Originally posted by 99:
Think about it, do you really think a filter can trap 15,000 miles worth of junk and still be 100% effective? The skeptic in me says no way, no how.

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Have you ever cut a used filter open?
What kinda junk are you talking about?

 

[JasonVW]

quote:

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Originally posted by terminaldegree:
Call me stubborn, but I wouldn't leave the same oil filter on my vehicle for 15,000 miles. I don't care what the brand is...

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Amen

 

[Andy H]

A filter made for the North American market is made good enough for the 7500 miles or 6 month US warranty service interval. There's no financial incentive to make them any better.

We have to consider the application - Fram for a Chevy is made to a different spec than a Fram for a VW or a Honda.

We have to consider that the change recommendation is for mileage OR time, whichever comes first. How long did the Mobil engineer say the filter could last in time?

Modern engines that have been well maintained, and is using the proper oil quality, shouldn't be generating sludge or the type of contaminants that plug filters. Make sure you distinguish between KNOWING that filters are plugging and bypassing, and simply throwing money at the FEAR that the filter MIGHT plug.

It's pretty useless to make a blanket statement like 'Fram is good enough'. Case in point: Pull a Fram filter for a 2003 Saturn Vue with the Opel 3.0 V6 and you'll get a filter made to Euro specs by Hengst (You'll get the same filter if you buy from Hastings or AMSOIL). This is a cellulose/polyester composite filter that's 50% at 24 microns. Pull the filter for a 2004 VW TDI and you'll get a cartridge unit made by Mann in Europe - made for a 2 year/50,000KM oil and filter change interval IF oil of the proper spec is used - synthetic meeting VWAG 505.01. Both of these filters are higher quality than nearly anthing sold for a Chevy or Ford.

Andy

 

[Filter guy]

As AndyH says:

"We have to consider that the change recommendation is for mileage OR time, whichever comes first. How long did the Mobil engineer say the filter could last in time?

Modern engines that have been well maintained, and is using the proper oil quality, shouldn't be generating sludge or the type of contaminants that plug filters. Make sure you distinguish between KNOWING that filters are plugging and bypassing, and simply throwing money at the FEAR that the filter MIGHT plug."


Consider that Automotive companies are concerned with NEW engine warranty.

So the time and mileage recommendations are for new engines where it is reasonable to conclude that "owners" will follow their guidelines.

A filter on a new engine with good oil should last whatever the recommendation is.

Where people get balled up in their shorts is transposing their current older vehicle to the recommended oil changes of vehicles they don't own. So if your vehicle is a 3,000 or 6,000 miles change one, why worry about some other engine brand that recommends some longer intevals for "new" engines?


Could there be any motive that once out of warranty let the shops repair the damages later..

The problems filter companies see with "bad" filters ---in general--- come on older high mileage engines. Where one can not ascertain the maintenance records.

So if your the type who treats his/her beauty from when you first buy it with TLC, you shouldn't worry about what name brand of filter you use as long as your changing your oil as required.

Reasonable prudence would tell you a vehicle not maintained properly will have more problems than one that is.

 

[vad]

How much of junk are you talking about?
I've seen a few filters with 10K or more and they were virtually gunk/particles free.

 

[99]

quote:

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Originally posted by vad:

quote:

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Originally posted by 99:
Think about it, do you really think a filter can trap 15,000 miles worth of junk and still be 100% effective? The skeptic in me says no way, no how.

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Have you ever cut a used filter open?
What kinda junk are you talking about?

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Yep and I've cut open enough since the 80s to know that I would never leave a filter on any engine that I care about for 15,000 miles. Same goes for the oil in my opinion. A filter costs $3-$10 on average depending on your flavor. A new engine or rebuilt engine is how many thousands of dollars? Do the common sense thing and chuck the cheap filter before chucking the engine. Anyways, to finish answering your questions, the junk I'm talking about is the contamination/particulates that the filter is designed to catch. That stuff collects in the filtering media, hence there being junk in the filter.

 

[Bebop]

I change the oil filter (Wix) in my 04 Civic every 20K miles (basically once a year) and oil (Mobile 1) every 10K miles per Honda recommendation. So far I have over 35+K without any problem.

It sure beats changing the oil every 3K with my 91 Civic.

 

[Andy H]

quote:

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Originally posted by 99:
I hope all you guys that go for these long OCIs are leasing the vehicles and do not want to spend any money other than the minimum required to keep the car in good standing with the lease and/or warranty requirements. I would never buy a car or truck that had the oil and filter changed at such long intervals.....didn't matter how nice the car appeared to be on the surface.

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It's a long OCI for Penzoil or Quakerstate, but a normal interval for a decent oil and filter. Of course, I ment that in the nicest sort of way...

I hope you never buy a VW (1 year or 10,000 miles using the proper oil in the US, 2 years/20,000 miles in Europe), or a Benz with an oil life monitor (up to 30,000 miles with a 229.5 synthetic oil), or even a Saturn Vue or other GM car with an oil life monitor -- can run up to 12K miles on a standard GF4 petroleum.

Changing engine oil too often is at least as bad as going too long. The API volatility limit is 15%. Most oils come in around 11-12%. The lighter elements volitize early after the oil change - this extra zinc and phosphorus damages the catalytic converter over time. In addition, it takes a while for the EP/AW additives to clean the old sacrificial layer and deposit a new layer - wear is higher right after an oil change than later.

Here are some wear numbers for a big truck I'm working with: 7.2ppm Fe per 1000 miles within 2000 miles of an oil change. 1.4ppm/1K at the 29K miles point, and 1.2ppm/1K at 53,400 miles.

I wouldn't want to buy YOUR car if you don't stick with a reasonable OCI - you're probably changing WAY too often.

Andy

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by 99:
I hope all you guys that go for these long OCIs are leasing the vehicles and do not want to spend any money other than the minimum required to keep the car in good standing with the lease and/or warranty requirements. I would never buy a car or truck that had the oil and filter changed at such long intervals.....didn't matter how nice the car appeared to be on the surface.

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Most people are simply following factory specified OCI's. Seems reasonable to me that a synthetic could easily handle the maximum factory oci.