Well I have noticed that Fram does not seem to build all of their filters to the same low standard. I was at Walmart tonight and noticed that the filter for my car as manufactured by fram looked decent. I do not remember my filter number but think it was 4937( 2003 Toyota Camry 2AZ-FE 2.4 I4). What I could see through the hole and from external inspection looked decent. I also noticed that it was as different from the Super Tech fiilter as it could get. The Super Tech filter had an o-ring gasket wich suprised me.
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Oil filter build quality Issues????
- Thread starter JohnBrowning
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I have cut a few Frams apart. I can't find anything wrong with their construction. People don't understand that when all of the elements and pressed into the can there are good seals formed where good seals are needed.
I don't see the paper end caps as an issue. No one has shown that the cardboard fails. The few failures that I have seen reported on the internet were caused when the center tube collapsed which is not considered a filter failure according to the oil filter manufacturers trade group.
Personally, I like the manner in which the filter element is mechanically anchored. The center tube is pressed against the end support on one end and the base plate on the other. The paper end caps make the filter element light. This makes the insides of the filter very mechanically rigid. Just think about the shaking that a filter must take.
Many guys don't like Frams. I have used them for over 30 years. No problems!
Kctom
I don't see the paper end caps as an issue. No one has shown that the cardboard fails. The few failures that I have seen reported on the internet were caused when the center tube collapsed which is not considered a filter failure according to the oil filter manufacturers trade group.
Personally, I like the manner in which the filter element is mechanically anchored. The center tube is pressed against the end support on one end and the base plate on the other. The paper end caps make the filter element light. This makes the insides of the filter very mechanically rigid. Just think about the shaking that a filter must take.
Many guys don't like Frams. I have used them for over 30 years. No problems!
Kctom
JohnBrowning
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I am tempted to cut it open with out even useing it. The Fram for my car is disportinately heavy for it's size. I am thinking that this one might not have any cardboard in it!!! It also felt heavier then the Champion Labs Super Tech filter. My point is that it might be that Fram actualy build some filters with decent materials and build quality. ktcom fram has not always built them as they currently do. I belive that it was late 80's or early 90's if I remember right that they went to this chaep design. So if yoy have been useing them for 30 years you have not been useing the cheap cardboard design for that long.
I do not have the problem with the cardboard end caps some here do,
but I will never buy a Fram. I have cut open 6 different brands of
filters that I have used on my truck, and measured the filter area.
Fram PH 3050 was a very poor last with 84 sq. in. That is less than
half fifth place, 2/3 the cost ST 3950 with 171 sq. in. The AC 1177
has over 3 times as much area at 255 sq. in. for about the same price.
I can not believe the Fram media is 3 times as good as the AC. I have
also seen some picture here of Frams with the end caps off center. I
suspect your Frams might not do much better than that Amsoil filter
did with starting the engine at -40 with a block heater. Likely many
filters fail under such extreme conditions. It is just that nobody cuts
them open to see it.
but I will never buy a Fram. I have cut open 6 different brands of
filters that I have used on my truck, and measured the filter area.
Fram PH 3050 was a very poor last with 84 sq. in. That is less than
half fifth place, 2/3 the cost ST 3950 with 171 sq. in. The AC 1177
has over 3 times as much area at 255 sq. in. for about the same price.
I can not believe the Fram media is 3 times as good as the AC. I have
also seen some picture here of Frams with the end caps off center. I
suspect your Frams might not do much better than that Amsoil filter
did with starting the engine at -40 with a block heater. Likely many
filters fail under such extreme conditions. It is just that nobody cuts
them open to see it.
When it comes to this claim, that Fram changed somehow in the early 90's , I don't believe it. I have put many, many miles on Fram filters during the 90's. They have performed as well as they did in the past. Fram claims that they have been using cardboard end caps for over 30 years. This arguement that Fram has changed is just an attempt to nullify testimonials like mine. I haven't seen any evidence to support the claim.
Both the Fram and the AC filters were tested and certified by the manufacturer to meet OEM specs. This means that both will hold the about of dirt specified by the OEM manufacturer using SAE tests. Either the AC has significantly more dirt holding ability than needed or the Fram has a significantly better filtering media. Either way, I don't care. You might want to check the analysis posted here on this site in which a Fram was compared with a Mobil 1 filter with an enormously larger filtering area. web page ]web page[/URL] The Fram kicked its butt according to oil analysis.
I have never seen a Fram oil filter that did not look like it was made by Fram. In fact I use a Fram 4967 on my Camery. What you see is a very typical Fram filter construction.
I have a hard time believing this off center endcap construction claim. I have looked far and wide on the internet and have never run accros any pictures showing this. It is difficult to assemble a Fram filter unless everything along the center tube isn't aligned correctly. If the center tube doesn't allign almost perfectally with the end cap, then neither the end support nor the base gasket can be inserted into the filter cartridge.
Keep in mind that Fram makes 170 million filters a year. Even a failure rate of just one in a million will yield a 170 bad filters a year. I haven't found a single picture documenting a Fram filter failure.
Both the Fram and the AC filters were tested and certified by the manufacturer to meet OEM specs. This means that both will hold the about of dirt specified by the OEM manufacturer using SAE tests. Either the AC has significantly more dirt holding ability than needed or the Fram has a significantly better filtering media. Either way, I don't care. You might want to check the analysis posted here on this site in which a Fram was compared with a Mobil 1 filter with an enormously larger filtering area. web page ]web page[/URL] The Fram kicked its butt according to oil analysis.
I have never seen a Fram oil filter that did not look like it was made by Fram. In fact I use a Fram 4967 on my Camery. What you see is a very typical Fram filter construction.
I have a hard time believing this off center endcap construction claim. I have looked far and wide on the internet and have never run accros any pictures showing this. It is difficult to assemble a Fram filter unless everything along the center tube isn't aligned correctly. If the center tube doesn't allign almost perfectally with the end cap, then neither the end support nor the base gasket can be inserted into the filter cartridge.
Keep in mind that Fram makes 170 million filters a year. Even a failure rate of just one in a million will yield a 170 bad filters a year. I haven't found a single picture documenting a Fram filter failure.
KCTom - I respect that you are providing a reasoned/rational (and uncommon) rebuttal against the multitude of criticisms about Fram.
I used them for about 20 years without any engine problems that I could attribute to a poor oil filter. However, given what I have read - even though little has been objective lab and field-based - and due to the availability of competitively priced filters that seem to have higher quality components and/or more media surface area, I decided to quit using Fram a couple years ago. Still, I couldn't say unequivically that the change has yielded improved service for my cars.
Cheers...
I used them for about 20 years without any engine problems that I could attribute to a poor oil filter. However, given what I have read - even though little has been objective lab and field-based - and due to the availability of competitively priced filters that seem to have higher quality components and/or more media surface area, I decided to quit using Fram a couple years ago. Still, I couldn't say unequivically that the change has yielded improved service for my cars.
Cheers...
I ran a 72 Gremlin with a 232 inline six for 15 years and 200K+ miles using fram oil filters and havoline 10w40 oil and changing oil every 3000miles. The engine was old, tired, and the parts inside were starting to sound as if they were slamming together. I sold the car and I saw it around town for another two years.
I do not currently percieve fram as the best quality available. I recently went to a baldwin b2-hpg from a Mobil 1 filter while using mobil 1 10w30. The oil change due right now I will be using a donaldson synthetic media filter and mobil 1 oil. I am a broke student and dont really have the money for $10 filters, but have even less money for engine breakdowns.
To me, its not that fram is so bad, its just that right now they are way behind the curve as to what is available from the rest of the market and they continue to ride on the good faith of past glory days.
Dan
I do not currently percieve fram as the best quality available. I recently went to a baldwin b2-hpg from a Mobil 1 filter while using mobil 1 10w30. The oil change due right now I will be using a donaldson synthetic media filter and mobil 1 oil. I am a broke student and dont really have the money for $10 filters, but have even less money for engine breakdowns.
To me, its not that fram is so bad, its just that right now they are way behind the curve as to what is available from the rest of the market and they continue to ride on the good faith of past glory days.
Dan
You hit the nail on te head. They were content to put out the same old product with taking any initive to upgrading their product. The only thing they ever improved was their advertising.quote:
Originally posted by Dan4510:
I do not currently percieve fram as the best quality available. I recently went to a baldwin b2-hpg from a Mobil 1 filter while using mobil 1 10w30. The oil change due right now I will be using a donaldson synthetic media filter and mobil 1 oil. I am a broke student and dont really have the money for $10 filters, but have even less money for engine breakdowns.
To me, its not that fram is so bad, its just that right now they are way behind the curve as to what is available from the rest of the market and they continue to ride on the good faith of past glory days.
Dan
They said absolutely nothing about efficiencies. Other brands were begining to figure out that Fram was easy pickings. Sorry they had their chance with me at least.
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