Oil Filter and Air Filter overrated?

[ThugStyle]

Ok you’re missing the hills for the trees. Or however that phrase goes.

First, I’m not really talking about the warranty directly; I’m talking about the implications of the lack of any mandate for the brand or any “ranking” or rating system standards for the filters.

If you read the PDF Napa provides for the warranty, it delves into quite some detail about what it takes to get paid. It’s not a negotiable contract, so they dictate the terms completely. At every turn they try to make it very difficult to collect in the language. So for them to leave out any sort of filter standard other than “change the oil and oil filter at least as often as the manufacturer recommends” means that - by definition - their team of engineers (and even lawyers) conclude that even the cheapo of oil filters performs at a high enough level that the “higher quality” filters are simply not needed.

They took into account any filter issues before announcing such a warranty (that is free btw).

And to address your off topic points:

The warranty does actually carry over to new owners, so it’s a nice selling point if the desire to part ways with the car takes over.

Also, one item in the warranty says that If the car is still under warranty and there’s a deductible, Pennzoil will pay the deductible for the owner, presumably bc it’s cheaper than paying for the whole bill. So, for a free warranty, it’s nice to have someone fighting tooth and nail to get someone else to pay for it.

And, yes, I think that this warranty is a net positive bc: their website sends regular maintenance reminders for things you should be doing anyways; it’s free; Pennzoil Ultra costs about $3 per quart after the online rebate for a 5 quart jug that costs ~$25,making it cheaper than conventional; even their basic oil is covered for 300k, so if you want cheaper oil get that; it’s a good selling point to potential buyers, among other things.

But like I posted, I’m talking about how Pennzoil concluded that any filter would work just fine (by not putting in an otherwise very detailed contract any sort of guidance about choosing a filter).

 

[ThugStyle]

I’m pretty sure their def is inoperable/ dead/ done/ need a new one bc this one no longer works.

My point is just that- the oil and it’s additives are so much more important than the filters that any filter would do just fine. They must have dealt with “bad” filters in their R & D. Imagine a scenario where a filter fails; certainly they have as they test their oils in engines, right. By ommitring filter guidance, they admit that even if that happens here and there during 300k or 500k miles,it does not matter.

 

[ThugStyle]

I address your manufacturer denial on engine warranty claims in another post.

 

[ThugStyle]

Um no. You can word any contract however you want, as Pennzoil did here. They can add a line along the lines of “film yourself dancing once a year and upload it to social media.” Unless it’s an item about discrimination or other obvious cases of things that cannot be in a contract, they can easily mandate what filter to use. Or give ANY guidance on chosing filters.

Edit: As a side note, many people expressed that their engines are quieter on Platinum and Ultra. I think that just comes with the territory of an oil made from natural gas, just by definition it causes less friction, meaning less wear.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
I’m pretty sure their def is inoperable/ dead/ done/ need a new one bc this one no longer works.

My point is just that- the oil and it’s additives are so much more important than the filters that any filter would do just fine. They must have dealt with “bad” filters in their R & D. Imagine a scenario where a filter fails; certainly they have as they test their oils in engines, right. By ommitring filter guidance, they admit that even if that happens here and there during 300k or 500k miles,it does not matter.


If a filter failed and was proven to have damaged the engine, Pennzoil or whoever is giving this "oil warranty" is going to say the filter company is responsible for the engine failure. I think your conclusions of what these oil companies have thought/tested/concluded is a big stretch.

It's been talked about a 100 times, that even a low efficiency filter (ie, 50% @ 20u) is not going to "blow-up" an engine and make it stop working. It's also been covered in those discussions that more efficient filters (air and oil) cause less wear ... regardless of how small of a wear difference there may be, it's always true that cleaner air and oil results in less debris which results in less wear.

 

[Onetor]

Bob Winters the man himself ran a OCI without an oil filter and received a stellar UOA. I recently bumped the thread . Again, every engine, driver, oil, environmental conditions are different.

But as stated by many here. The best oil filter is the air filter.

However; I still like to use a quality oil and filter (FU) for my vehicles.

I don't smoke or drink, so I splurge on preventative vehicle maintenance. I sleep better anyway, most of the time.

I def agree with Zee

Really enjoy reading the original posters. They were/are knowledgeable. As always we always restate and argue what they said to begin with.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
point is just that- the oil and it’s additives are so much more important than the filters that any filter would do just fine. They must have dealt with “bad” filters in their R & D. Imagine a scenario where a filter fails; certainly they have as they test their oils in engines, right. By ommitring filter guidance, they admit that even if that happens here and there during 300k or 500k miles,it does not matter.

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
Um no. You can word any contract however you want, as Pennzoil did here. They can add a line along the lines of “film yourself dancing once a year and upload it to social media.” Unless it’s an item about discrimination or other obvious cases of things that cannot be in a contract, they can easily mandate what filter to use. Or give ANY guidance on chosing filters.

Edit: As a side note, many people expressed that their engines are quieter on Platinum and Ultra. I think that just comes with the territory of an oil made from natural gas, just by definition it causes less friction, meaning less wear.

So was this your reason for joining and making this subject your first post? Just to stir up an already death-beaten topic for entertainment?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
Um no. You can word any contract however you want, as Pennzoil did here. They can add a line along the lines of “film yourself dancing once a year and upload it to social media.” Unless it’s an item about discrimination or other obvious cases of things that cannot be in a contract, they can easily mandate what filter to use. Or give ANY guidance on chosing filters.

Yes, you can but it's not wise. If you make a warranty offer (which is essentially a marketing exercise, since I'm sure very few warranty claims have been claimed, much less paid), and you want people to participate in the program, you don't want to make very difficult hoops to jump through.

Pennzoil could ask us to ship every empty container directly to them for recycling as part of the warranty requirements, but they don't do that, either.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
Um no. You can word any contract however you want, as Pennzoil did here. They can add a line along the lines of “film yourself dancing once a year and upload it to social media.” Unless it’s an item about discrimination or other obvious cases of things that cannot be in a contract, they can easily mandate what filter to use. Or give ANY guidance on chosing filters.

Yes, you can but it's not wise. If you make a warranty offer (which is essentially a marketing exercise, since I'm sure very few warranty claims have been claimed, much less paid), and you want people to participate in the program, you don't want to make very difficult hoops to jump through.

Pennzoil could ask us to ship every empty container directly to them for recycling as part of the warranty requirements, but they don't do that, either.

I think their warranty requirements are quite reasonable as are the ones for ExxonMobil's guarantee (theirs is even less stringent). If the oil company can't prove that you used their oil why would they pay a warranty claim against it?

 

[ThugStyle]

Honda, which has a stellar reputation for reliability, says to change the filter every other oil change. Do they require a specific brand for their warranty? I don’t know, but even if they do, think about that: two cycles of oil on the same filter.

In all my years, I have never known someone who mentioned anything about their oil filter failing.

From what I gather, the filter paper inside is made from cellulose. If I recal correctly form a biochem course, , this is a sugar that we humans don’t have the enzymes to digest, a molecule found in tree wood. I don’t see how one company’s tree bark is better than another.

If you guys are this serious about oil and filters, you would try to research which trees contributed to the filter and have many discussions on which is better.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
If you guys are this serious about oil and filters, you would try to research which trees contributed to the filter and have many discussions on which is better.

Now you're just being silly, ThugStyle.

 

[ThugStyle]

I joined to see if people can logically prove me wrong on the idea that any filter will do with regular maintenance per the manual.

I don’t know if I met anyone who says their filter caused engine damage. The OEM filters are made by mass market makers anyway. At that point the best filters may fail also.

 

[goodtimes]

I am going to keep my 500,000 mile engine warranty in my glove compartment so I don't lose it.

 

[ThugStyle]

I was watching an interview of someone named Jo Malone, a perfumer. They said they can smell an ingredient in the juice and can tell which soil region the ingredient came from, like telling wine apart. “Oh this smells like the dadada of the dada region.”

I think my presence here can take this enthusiast community to the next level and beyond.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
I was watching an interview of someone named Jo Malone, a perfumer. They said they can smell an ingredient in the juice and can tell which soil region the ingredient came from, like telling wine apart. “Oh this smells like the dadada of the dada region.”

I think my presence here can take this enthusiast community to the next level and beyond.

Lmao. So as I thought you are a recycled member, just which one is TBD.

You remind me of that one dude that came in and made the big splash with the fake story about how filters got torn. But maybe I'm giving you too much credit, I don't know yet.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
In all my years, I have never known someone who mentioned anything about their oil filter failing.


Tear-O-Later ... lots of talk about Purolator media tearing over the last 4 years.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
I joined to see if people can logically prove me wrong on the idea that any filter will do with regular maintenance per the manual.

I don’t know if I met anyone who says their filter caused engine damage. The OEM filters are made by mass market makers anyway. At that point the best filters may fail also.


Nobody is claiming that any filter will not work. How about someone proving that low efficiency filers keep oil just as clean as high efficiency filters ... with real study date, not strawman arguments.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
I think my presence here can take this enthusiast community to the next level and beyond.


... in aluminum foil purchases (j/k).

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
I joined to see if people can logically prove me wrong on the idea that any filter will do with regular maintenance per the manual.


Yes, even the cheapest $1 oil filter will get the job done... for the most part. I'm sure you could run an engine without an oil filter and it will still last 200,000 miles.

It's been proven that the better the oil filter, the lower the wear simply because you don't have even the TINIEST particles acting like an abrasive sand paper inside the engine, that the resulting cleaner oil performs better and lasts longer. That's essentially the oil filters main job.




I honestly don't understand why this entire topic is still being

Isn't it OBVIOUS that the entire conspiracy (plot, if you will) of the oil companies that offer said "warranty" is simply to get the consumer to BUY THEIR PRODUCT over the competitor??? It's clear as day. Lol.

We all know that if you follow the auto manufacturers recommended service schedule / intervals that the engine will literally LAST FOREVER! I mean seriously, the wheels will fall off before the engine calls it quits due to Lube. This warranty is A JOKE and they know it!!! The people that fall for this SCAM are CHUMPS.

 

[ThugStyle]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ThugStyle
I was watching an interview of someone named Jo Malone, a perfumer. They said they can smell an ingredient in the juice and can tell which soil region the ingredient came from, like telling wine apart. “Oh this smells like the dadada of the dada region.”

I think my presence here can take this enthusiast community to the next level and beyond.

Lmao. So as I thought you are a recycled member, just which one is TBD.

You remind me of that one dude that came in and made the big splash with the fake story about how filters got torn. But maybe I'm giving you too much credit, I don't know yet.


Lol I swear to God that I am not a "recycled member." If that sort of thing happens here, such individuals should reevaluate what they are doing with their lives. And have an overall goal to execute until they reach the end.

Watch this video from about 2:15 to 2:30 (or longer if you want to hear the rest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVWwuqhiBqM

^So I think we all should start getting in touch with our noses and try to name which region we think the cellulose in the filters came from. It may be too advanced for us to try with natural gas that turned into Pennzoil synthetic. But Crude itself is essentially aged wood. We can try to compare other petroleum products too.