I just thought I'd bring this up on here for discussion purposes. My 1990 Thunderbird Super Coupe has a factory oil cooler than runs engine coolant through a stacked plate design on the oil filter mount. I was curious on everyone's opinion on here what this does to oil temps. The car uses a 195F thermostat. So I'm assuming the coolant runs in the 220F range, meaning the oil would stay pretty close to that I bet. Is this a good design? It seems like from a cold start it would be quite beneficial allowing the coolant which warms up faster to warm up the oil to operating temp. So the oil probably gets up to temperature a lot quicker than it would without this cooler. What is everyone else's thoughts?
Oil cooler exchanges heat with coolant
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Oil is fine at 220 - the design is meant to keep the temps from going higher than the 240-260 range. Also, while the coolant entering the radiator may run 210, the coolant coming out of the radiator is much less - hopefully the oil cooler is closer to the cool part of the fluid path. for instance, most tranny coolers are in the cooler part of the radiator. and one can always take the "corvette route": on one of the model redesigns there was not room to install the standard oil cooler, so instead GM spec'd synth oil for the vette.
I've always considered it to be a good design for the quick-warming effect it has on the tranny fluid, but that makes me wonder why it's called a 'cooler' at all, since I think it would actually cool the tranny fluid better if it sat outside the radiator, exposed to the ambient ram-air on the front end of the car.
What I can tell you is that it makes a mess of EVERYTHING if the tranny cooler ruptures. Oil in the coolant, anti-freeze in the tranny. What a nightmare.
What I can tell you is that it makes a mess of EVERYTHING if the tranny cooler ruptures. Oil in the coolant, anti-freeze in the tranny. What a nightmare.
The proper term is heat exchanger and is commonly used in aerospace industry, I don't know why automotive industry usually uses term cooler.
I think that the role of the "cooler" is to keep the oil temp as steady as possible without wild swings in either direction. Colder doesn't always mean better.
I think that the role of the "cooler" is to keep the oil temp as steady as possible without wild swings in either direction. Colder doesn't always mean better.
I would guess that you are correct.
My Ferrari F355B has a heat exchanger to the transmission oil. At cold start conditions, this loostens up the tranny faster than otherwise. In hot conditions, it keeps the tranny oil cooler than it would have been. Only the challenge race cars drop the oil-water heat exhanger for a oil-air radiator.
My HL has one from the factory, while the Camry doesn't. Obviously a 2.4 liter engine in a 3600 lb car is worked harder than the same one in a 3000 lb car.
My Accord doesn't, but the higher performance version of the same K series engines like the TSX/RSX/Si do.
Either way, in applications where oil temps will be high, these manufacturers use these devices.
If there are big swings in oil temp, this is probably the cheapest way for a manufacturer to make sure the temps stay below a certain threshold, like KrisZ says. I doubt it's to cool the oil to extend it's life, but to help keep it inside an acceptable range of temps when the engine is stressed.
My Accord doesn't, but the higher performance version of the same K series engines like the TSX/RSX/Si do.
Either way, in applications where oil temps will be high, these manufacturers use these devices.
If there are big swings in oil temp, this is probably the cheapest way for a manufacturer to make sure the temps stay below a certain threshold, like KrisZ says. I doubt it's to cool the oil to extend it's life, but to help keep it inside an acceptable range of temps when the engine is stressed.
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My 04 Volvo has one. All new Volvos have one too.
However, only older turbo Volvos have them.
However, only older turbo Volvos have them.
I think Volvo added the coolers because they tired of all the americans who run dino oil.....
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Originally Posted By: lanteau
I just thought I'd bring this up on here for discussion purposes. My 1990 Thunderbird Super Coupe has a factory oil cooler than runs engine coolant through a stacked plate design on the oil filter mount. I was curious on everyone's opinion on here what this does to oil temps. The car uses a 195F thermostat. So I'm assuming the coolant runs in the 220F range, meaning the oil would stay pretty close to that I bet. Is this a good design? It seems like from a cold start it would be quite beneficial allowing the coolant which warms up faster to warm up the oil to operating temp. So the oil probably gets up to temperature a lot quicker than it would without this cooler. What is everyone else's thoughts?
I have about a dozen of them. I prefer the Mopar Modine over the Ford modine (or long). The price is about 400% less
You're probably not running anything over 200F in your coolant unless you're hammering it. Anyway the rad has a lot more heat dumping ability than the pan does and is regulated.
There's a synergistic aspect to the laminar sandwich coolers that I can only speculate on. The flow differential between coolant and oil is substantial, even on the bypass/heater circuit. So you can cool oil with only adding a few btu's to the coolant to be dumped. The oddity is that by cooling the oil, you unload the cooling jackets by keeping the oil temp in relative freefall in terms of excess btu potential (that's just filling in the observations with speculation in cause:effect).
My coolant temps at highway speeds decreased with the addition of sandwich cooler.
I put them on everything that can fit them.
I just thought I'd bring this up on here for discussion purposes. My 1990 Thunderbird Super Coupe has a factory oil cooler than runs engine coolant through a stacked plate design on the oil filter mount. I was curious on everyone's opinion on here what this does to oil temps. The car uses a 195F thermostat. So I'm assuming the coolant runs in the 220F range, meaning the oil would stay pretty close to that I bet. Is this a good design? It seems like from a cold start it would be quite beneficial allowing the coolant which warms up faster to warm up the oil to operating temp. So the oil probably gets up to temperature a lot quicker than it would without this cooler. What is everyone else's thoughts?
I have about a dozen of them. I prefer the Mopar Modine over the Ford modine (or long). The price is about 400% less
You're probably not running anything over 200F in your coolant unless you're hammering it. Anyway the rad has a lot more heat dumping ability than the pan does and is regulated.
There's a synergistic aspect to the laminar sandwich coolers that I can only speculate on. The flow differential between coolant and oil is substantial, even on the bypass/heater circuit. So you can cool oil with only adding a few btu's to the coolant to be dumped. The oddity is that by cooling the oil, you unload the cooling jackets by keeping the oil temp in relative freefall in terms of excess btu potential (that's just filling in the observations with speculation in cause:effect).
My coolant temps at highway speeds decreased with the addition of sandwich cooler.
I put them on everything that can fit them.
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
I think Volvo added the coolers because they tired of all the americans who run dino oil.....
I try to tell people...
The dealer I work at had to switch to semi-synthetic because after 7500 miles, the dino oil we were pumping was turning solid in the turbos.
Very rarely do customers come in and request synthetic oil be put in their vehicles.
I think Volvo added the coolers because they tired of all the americans who run dino oil.....
I try to tell people...
The dealer I work at had to switch to semi-synthetic because after 7500 miles, the dino oil we were pumping was turning solid in the turbos.
Very rarely do customers come in and request synthetic oil be put in their vehicles.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I have about a dozen of them. I prefer the Mopar Modine over the Ford modine (or long). The price is about 400% less
Tell us more about this Mopar Modine cooler, Gary? What are the apps or part numbers and do you have a pic handy? I've been looking for something to put on as a cooler/heater on a tractor.
I have about a dozen of them. I prefer the Mopar Modine over the Ford modine (or long). The price is about 400% less
Tell us more about this Mopar Modine cooler, Gary? What are the apps or part numbers and do you have a pic handy? I've been looking for something to put on as a cooler/heater on a tractor.
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They're slightly bigger than the ones you see on older Fords (80's through some 90's). You can look at the image at any Mopar counter by asking about the oil cooler for a 2005 Grand Caravan with HD towing package.
There's a few Ford items that are shared with Mopar. One is the right angle adapters. $40 complete from Mopar ..about $150 from Ford. Replacement O rings for same, 2 for $3 Mopar ..$12+ at the Ford counter.
This isn't the current one that Mopar is offering but appears on some NEON turbos.
The one on the right is a Ford in some of the oddball way they have them configured for various apps.
Here's your generic Ford cooler. The nipples and the extension hollow bolt may vary with threads, so you have to know what you're looking at.
This image won't last forever.
The nipples may be angled ..some are WAY bigger and intended to run the rad hoses through.
Ford had every tricked out way of installing these. Some had special rad hoses where the flow was diverted and returned to a piece that created enough of a differential to induce flow.
The new MOPAR unit was about $140 (I think that was retail) last time I checked. It's best to have a relationship with the parts man on buying this. I think it can be had for $100 ..but that's a distant memory (a couple of years old).
These used to be in the old MOPAR performance catalog.
There's a few Ford items that are shared with Mopar. One is the right angle adapters. $40 complete from Mopar ..about $150 from Ford. Replacement O rings for same, 2 for $3 Mopar ..$12+ at the Ford counter.
This isn't the current one that Mopar is offering but appears on some NEON turbos.
The one on the right is a Ford in some of the oddball way they have them configured for various apps.
Here's your generic Ford cooler. The nipples and the extension hollow bolt may vary with threads, so you have to know what you're looking at.
This image won't last forever.
The nipples may be angled ..some are WAY bigger and intended to run the rad hoses through.
Ford had every tricked out way of installing these. Some had special rad hoses where the flow was diverted and returned to a piece that created enough of a differential to induce flow.
The new MOPAR unit was about $140 (I think that was retail) last time I checked. It's best to have a relationship with the parts man on buying this. I think it can be had for $100 ..but that's a distant memory (a couple of years old).
These used to be in the old MOPAR performance catalog.
I have the one on the left in the picture on my 05 Neon. T-stat is also 195, and my oil temps stay right around 195 while cruising around. never have seen over 210 for oil temps while daily driving.
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Well this makes me feel better that my oil temperatures should stay in an acceptable range on track days when I'm really hammering on it. I'm thinking the oil temps shouldn't ever be anything the GC can't handle =P
track days are a different story. I see 270-290 degree oil temps while on the road course with the stock heat exchanger
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Well this makes me feel better that my oil temperatures should stay in an acceptable range on track days when I'm really hammering on it. I'm thinking the oil temps shouldn't ever be anything the GC can't handle =P
track days are a different story. I see 270-290 degree oil temps while on the road course with the stock heat exchanger
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The big point being missed here is that the radiator operates at a much cooler temp than the engine.
Sure, the engine coolant can get to 210 F or so, but the radiator cools it! So the return to the engine from it is much less.
The oil/coolant heat exchanger is a benefit for warming up the engine oil. It should also keep it more stable at operating temps.
To me, it's just more stuff to break, but a well designed one can be a benefit.
Sure, the engine coolant can get to 210 F or so, but the radiator cools it! So the return to the engine from it is much less.
The oil/coolant heat exchanger is a benefit for warming up the engine oil. It should also keep it more stable at operating temps.
To me, it's just more stuff to break, but a well designed one can be a benefit.
Originally Posted By: lanteau
I just thought I'd bring this up on here for discussion purposes. My 1990 Thunderbird Super Coupe has a factory oil cooler than runs engine coolant through a stacked plate design on the oil filter mount. I was curious on everyone's opinion on here what this does to oil temps. The car uses a 195F thermostat. So I'm assuming the coolant runs in the 220F range, meaning the oil would stay pretty close to that I bet. Is this a good design? It seems like from a cold start it would be quite beneficial allowing the coolant which warms up faster to warm up the oil to operating temp. So the oil probably gets up to temperature a lot quicker than it would without this cooler. What is everyone else's thoughts?
Coolant temps typically run real close to the T-stat temp when the car is getting good air flow through the radiator (ie, moving 40+ MPH).
The coolant going to the oil cooler takes it's supply off the cold end of the radiator which should be even cooler than T-stat temp. So, in reality, the oil cooler is indeed using coolant with relatively low temp to carry heat from the oil. IMO, they work great.
I just thought I'd bring this up on here for discussion purposes. My 1990 Thunderbird Super Coupe has a factory oil cooler than runs engine coolant through a stacked plate design on the oil filter mount. I was curious on everyone's opinion on here what this does to oil temps. The car uses a 195F thermostat. So I'm assuming the coolant runs in the 220F range, meaning the oil would stay pretty close to that I bet. Is this a good design? It seems like from a cold start it would be quite beneficial allowing the coolant which warms up faster to warm up the oil to operating temp. So the oil probably gets up to temperature a lot quicker than it would without this cooler. What is everyone else's thoughts?
Coolant temps typically run real close to the T-stat temp when the car is getting good air flow through the radiator (ie, moving 40+ MPH).
The coolant going to the oil cooler takes it's supply off the cold end of the radiator which should be even cooler than T-stat temp. So, in reality, the oil cooler is indeed using coolant with relatively low temp to carry heat from the oil. IMO, they work great.
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The only cooler that uses the cold end of the rad is the 4.6 Crown Vic. Much like this one here which I adapted for an upper rad hose installation as a warmer. The thermostat would direct it to the upper hose exchanger when below 180F and to the lower hose exchanger above 180F
This one too
and this ps cooler from some LS Chevy (3/8 lines)
The sandwich coolers get the bypass circuit ..or whatever the thermostat sees.
Edit: The ONE setup where the sandwich cooler sees lower rad hose water is the aforementioned "special" hose that has the restrictor in it to create a differential and the honking big nippled coolers like the 4.0 Explorer. Most are on the heater circuit.
This one too
and this ps cooler from some LS Chevy (3/8 lines)
The sandwich coolers get the bypass circuit ..or whatever the thermostat sees.
Edit: The ONE setup where the sandwich cooler sees lower rad hose water is the aforementioned "special" hose that has the restrictor in it to create a differential and the honking big nippled coolers like the 4.0 Explorer. Most are on the heater circuit.
Mine goes directly from the water pump to the oil cooler, then from the oil cooler the water goes into the block. This leads me to believe the water being pumped to the oil cooler is coming directly from the lower radiator hose (cooled water).
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