Oil Cooler Choices

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Originally Posted By: Soak_n_Fused
I also do not like the hoses carrying my oil all over

Its on a thermostat 160 is partial Flo
180 full oil flow

Also I believe the factory oil temp sensor is in the oil pan


Thats interesting, the oil cooler in my car doesnt open thr thermo until 230-240.
Normal op oil temp is 240-250F.
 
Originally Posted By: Soak_n_Fused
Double wasp this is what im trying to avoid. I just replaced this motor and all the timing parts involved. what did you do to prevent this [censored]. I don't want it to happen again


I installed an oil cooler.
wink.gif
 
Long as your oil pressure holds at least 25psi at all times, you'll be fine.

When towing, mine would drop to 19psi at some instances, and that's when the racket started. Phasers can't return to idle setting when pressure is less than 25psi.

Switching to a 40 weight solved this issue, but adding an oil cooler allowed me to go back to 5/20.
 
My oil temps when the ambient is under 20f doesn't get hot enough. Even with the oil/coolant exchanger. 5f and it runs at about 160f at best. Hyundai ses 180f t-stats and it would be nice to find one in the 190f range.
 
This is why I will not run a 20W oil in my fords when towing/working them hard. I know ford recommends it and all the thin oil crowd on here swears by it but if yo use your truck like a truck and monitor oil temps and oil pressure you'll quickly see why you need 30W at a min.
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
This is why I will not run a 20W oil in my fords when towing/working them hard. I know ford recommends it and all the thin oil crowd on here swears by it but if yo use your truck like a truck and monitor oil temps and oil pressure you'll quickly see why you need 30W at a min.
Totally disagree! I have towed in the mountains in temperatures of 117F and I have UOA'ed every OC and there is zero evidence of the oil breaking down and certainly there was no engine damage. While I will unequivocally state oil is not a one size fits all, I will say the fear mongering that exists with xW-20 is unfounded.
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
This is why I will not run a 20W oil in my fords when towing/working them hard. I know ford recommends it and all the thin oil crowd on here swears by it but if yo use your truck like a truck and monitor oil temps and oil pressure you'll quickly see why you need 30W at a min.


How are you monitoring the oil pressures in your fords?
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
This is why I will not run a 20W oil in my fords when towing/working them hard. I know ford recommends it and all the thin oil crowd on here swears by it but if yo use your truck like a truck and monitor oil temps and oil pressure you'll quickly see why you need 30W at a min.
Totally disagree! I have towed in the mountains in temperatures of 117F and I have UOA'ed every OC and there is zero evidence of the oil breaking down and certainly there was no engine damage. While I will unequivocally state oil is not a one size fits all, I will say the fear mongering that exists with xW-20 is unfounded.


The xW-20 won't break down or anything, but if the engine is being worked hard enough (and especially if it's got some miles and wear on it), it's possible for it to get too thin and not hold adequate pressure to keep everything happy.

If that's happening and the temps aren't high enough to make you say "holy [censored], this needs an oil cooler!", then the problem can be solved by just stepping up a grade oil-wise, as an xW-30 will remain thick enough to keep adequate pressure and keep the engine happy at higher temps than the xW-20 would in the same engine.

Adding an oil cooler also solves the issue by keeping the temps in a range where the xW-20 is adequate for the engine. Keep in mind, OEMs typically design and spec to the 90% of users, not necessarily including the 10% that run their stuff hard and use it to its full ability (excluding dedicated track packs and such). It's usually not too hard to find a cooling limitation or other issue with a stock vehicle being run flat-out in hot weather.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
This is why I will not run a 20W oil in my fords when towing/working them hard. I know ford recommends it and all the thin oil crowd on here swears by it but if yo use your truck like a truck and monitor oil temps and oil pressure you'll quickly see why you need 30W at a min.
Totally disagree! I have towed in the mountains in temperatures of 117F and I have UOA'ed every OC and there is zero evidence of the oil breaking down and certainly there was no engine damage. While I will unequivocally state oil is not a one size fits all, I will say the fear mongering that exists with xW-20 is unfounded.
The xW-20 won't break down or anything, but if the engine is being worked hard enough (and especially if it's got some miles and wear on it), it's possible for it to get too thin and not hold adequate pressure to keep everything happy.
How would one know this without apparent damage to the engine? It would seem if this were the case, simply stepping up to an xW-30 would not solve the issue (plenty of xW-30 oils shear to xW-20 viscosity). For myself, at 160K, my FX4 ran as well as it did when I first started towing with it. This is just IMHO, but I still say the fears about xW-20 are unfounded and many times people are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
How would one know this without apparent damage to the engine? It would seem if this were the case, simply stepping up to an xW-30 would not solve the issue (plenty of xW-30 oils shear to xW-20 viscosity). For myself, at 160K, my FX4 ran as well as it did when I first started towing with it. This is just IMHO, but I still say the fears about xW-20 are unfounded and many times people are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.


If you've got an oil pressure gauge on the motor, the pressure dropping below spec when hot would be an indication that the oil is thinning out too much. Or if some oil operated system starts to behave abnormally (such as lifters clattering at idle after a hard run until it cools down a bit).

Beyond that, it's tough to really know without pulling the thing apart to see if it's suffering from excessive wear.

In the end, for 90% or more of the people out there, the recommended xW-20 will do a perfectly fine job of keeping the engine intact. It's just the ones that are run extra hard that need to be watched closely (or bump up a grade just to be safe if there's no other associated concerns / issues).
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
My oil temps when the ambient is under 20f doesn't get hot enough. Even with the oil/coolant exchanger. 5f and it runs at about 160f at best. Hyundai ses 180f t-stats and it would be nice to find one in the 190f range.


go up 1 sae grade?
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
My oil temps when the ambient is under 20f doesn't get hot enough. Even with the oil/coolant exchanger. 5f and it runs at about 160f at best. Hyundai ses 180f t-stats and it would be nice to find one in the 190f range.


go up 1 sae grade?
I don't really drive the car in the winter. But I was using 0w40 last year. On 5w30 now.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
How would one know this without apparent damage to the engine? It would seem if this were the case, simply stepping up to an xW-30 would not solve the issue (plenty of xW-30 oils shear to xW-20 viscosity). For myself, at 160K, my FX4 ran as well as it did when I first started towing with it. This is just IMHO, but I still say the fears about xW-20 are unfounded and many times people are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
If you've got an oil pressure gauge on the motor, the pressure dropping below spec when hot would be an indication that the oil is thinning out too much. Or if some oil operated system starts to behave abnormally (such as lifters clattering at idle after a hard run until it cools down a bit).
Or that the bearings have too much clearance from wear and need to be replaced or the oil pump is wearing out--many reasons for the oil pressure dropping when the oil is hot and most of them are not because the oil is too thin.
 
The issue is the pumps they put in these engines. They have aluminum backing plates and bypass oil, most aggravated by high rpms and high oil temps. Combine the 2 together, and you get what you get.

Not all of the pumps are equal. When Melling tested a bunch of them, some bypassed a little, and some bypassed a lot.

The only solution is an aftermarket pump with an iron backing plate, but that involves pretty much rebuilding the engine, and I'm not going to go through all of that just to maintain oil spec.

The issue I had with my engine is not unheard of. Plenty of dealer mechanics know to address this issue with a fresh fill of Motorcraft 15/40 oil. No one to date has come up with any other solution for the "glass marbles" issue. You can change as many phaers, tensioners, and what-not, and it will still do it.

For whatever reason, this issue rears its ugly head in greater frequency in Expeditions and Navigators than in the pickups.

In my situation, I was on the side of the road with my boat hitched up and found the solution on the internet. I changed the oil right there on the side of the road and the problem was immediately gone and never came back.

Ultimately, I went back to a 40 because of the cackling of the phasers at light-load at around 1200rpm.

Again, I'm not going to tear into this engine just to maintain oil spec.

The problem is not the 20 weight oil. The problem is that Ford built a really good engine with a few trashy parts.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Long as your oil pressure holds at least 25psi at all times, you'll be fine.

When towing, mine would drop to 19psi at some instances, and that's when the racket started. Phasers can't return to idle setting when pressure is less than 25psi.

Switching to a 40 weight solved this issue, but adding an oil cooler allowed me to go back to 5/20.


did you notice a difference in anything else when you ran a 40 weight
 
SHOZ,

I don't mean to be rude but im not sure a Hyundai and a truck that is being used for heavy towing are extremely comparable.
I do greatly appreciate your help though.
The only thing that killed me is the amount of pressure drop over the "donut" style oil cooler and how sensitive my truck is to having adequate pressure.
 
with some of you guys mentioning different weights we gotta remember usually around 30 degrees is about a grade point for oil also
for ex 5w20 @ 170 about the same as 30 @ 200 or 40 @ 230 Degrees
 
Are you talking the bypass plates or the oil water heat exchanger? No pressure drop on mine. Even though it is a Hyundai. 85 lbs at 7k rpms.
 
I also wanted to mention that I found when I pulled out my oil cooler in this colder weather my gauge was a lot happier I had more pressure on startup (first minute) then I did with my oil cooler
 
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