Oil Burning Car

[TWG1572]

I'm sharing this story to share how the other 90% of America thinks, since most of us on here tend to be a bit *ahem* obsessive about our car maintenance...

A friend has a couple year old Accord that is an oil burner. In the last year, she's run it to the point where no oil is showing on the dipstick three times (that I know about). Her first indication every time was the service engine light coming on. Most recently was this week. Obviously this engine has an issue. From what I understand, Honda did a lot of a work on it and is now falling back on the "1 quart per 1000 miles is normal" line. I fully understand that line is really painful when you are the owner of a shiny new car....I get that completely and it sucks.

However, I find it interesting that the only point she has chosen to argue with the dealership is that she shouldn't be expected to check her oil every time she fills up. Because that is unreasonable to expect of someone. She is going in today to have another "showdown" with the dealer on this topic (and bringing her family to help argue the point). I was boneheaded enough to try and make the point with her and her family last night that sooner or later she needed to take accountability for her car maintenance and actually check the oil. Because that’s what people do when they have an oil burning car. Let’s just say I was piled on from all sides for comment. Tactical error. Lesson learned.

But I just wanted to share because I think it shows how disconnected most people are with their cars. Most people, her included, have this expectation that all they have to do is fill their car up with gas and life should be good for 100K miles. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable in suggesting that she might want to check the oil every now and then to avoid round four of running the car dry. Unfortunately, that’s where she’s heading. And needless to say, I’m not giving any car advice to her or touching that car…

I feel better now… venting over

 

[HerrStig]

Passing the buck is "Job # 1" these days.

 

[01rangerxl]

My roommate has a 2004 Jeep Liberty 3.7 with a little over 220K miles on it. It hemorrhages oil from every seal and is probably burning it too. The oil light comes on frequently. One day my roommate went and bought a bottle of oil to add, and I noticed he only added a little bit (a cup or less), then started it up to see if the light would go off. I asked him, and sure enough he had been adding just enough oil to get the light to go off for thousands upon thousands of miles. No dipstick checking.

I still haven't been able to get him to understand why the dipstick might be helpful, but at least now he does know that the oil light means "go ahead and add a whole bottle."

I think the transmission is going to do it in first since the slip/shudder is back, but it's almost sickening how well his "maintenance schedule" works. By works, I mean the Jeep still runs and drives most of the time.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: TWG1572
I'm sharing this story to share how the other 90% of America thinks, since most of us on here tend to be a bit *ahem* obsessive about our car maintenance...


That's probably more like 98%...

I've never been concerned about oil usage, of course I've never bought a new car and only one with a warranty... With a large capitol outlay, I'd be figuring a way to get rid of that car...

 

[d00df00d]

Should people expect engines to run 100k miles with nothing but gas? Of course not.

Should they expect to have to check their oil frequently? That's a little less clear, IMO.

As always, the question is where to draw the line.

 

[The_Jeff]

It'll fall on deaf ears but the owner's manual will have a thing on checking oil all the time, like when buying fuel.

It must have been hard, psychologically, to go from a car that didn't burn oil for 150k (or replaced that missing oil with an equal amount of fuel dilution) to one that now does. Surely a sizeable % of Toyota/Honda sales go to people who don't want to have to open a hood, as there's an inneer conflict or acknowledgement of incompetence, and it's easier to avoid the situation. Some people don't like mechanics... some don't like dentists... and so do what they can to avoid them. I get that. Opening a hood is a psychological barrier that that person was somehow defeated. My grandmother wouldn't eat spaghetti because "poor people do that". We all have our oddities.

It would be the same if you had a computer that ran fine without rebooting to one that needs it occasionally, from permanent press clothing to stuff that needs ironing, etc.

That poor dealer (I say in jest... I would not mind a Honda franchise with exclusive territory) is to the customer the face of Honda-USA or just "Honda" and reaming them a new one is not suddenly going to make the car behaving. If you listen to her complain invariably it will come out:

You sold me a lemon car, putting the action/blame on the other party, and not acting like it was a decision of mutual choice.

 

[hattaresguy]

Most people are spoiled by modern cars and have no idea what car's used to be like, and car ownership used to be like. OTOH this is why women preferred electric cars 100 years ago when they were offered.

Try driving say a Jag XK120 (or any car pre 1970) like that and not checking the oil, it has no idiot lights to save you, the expensive engine just seizes. In a lot of European cars it was considered totally normal and fine to consume a quart every 800 miles or less, and the owners were expected to keep up on it.

People these days have no understanding of vehicles, or really anything for that matter.

Does this lady have a significant other? This is the point where the husband/boyfriend steps up to the plate and keeps up on the oil.

 

[supton]

I'd find it hard to accept checking the oil *every* fill up. Engine's about had it in my mind at that point. If it's a beater to just get around in, fine; but on something anything half-way decent? I'd hate that.

Checking every 2-3 fillups though, especially if you know it drinks a qt every 1kmiles--that seems doable, and not that bad. I try to check on Saturday mornings--not exactly hard--but modern cars just don't need weekly checkups. That's why we drive modern cars, and tend to buy appliances.

How old/how many miles is this Honda?

 

[UNC017]

I hate it that people are so disconnected from their cars that they don't even know how to check oil (I can't tell you how many times I've been at a gas station and seen someone pull the dipstick out and look at it... with the engine RUNNING!).

On the other hand, low oil consumption is the new standard since small-bore engines are now the standard. A quart per 1K mile is very rare these days. So she does have every right to be disappointed in a car that performs so badly while still so new.

As for the Jeep... yeah, I've known people like that and cars like that. I'm sure he'd have no qualms about setting off cross-country in it, and would probably have a trouble-free trip. Then there's me... I'm absolutely meticulous, and would probably have a breakdown...

 

[fisher83]

I have decided that preaching preventative maintenance to others is pretty much a waste of time. We have family members that replace their cars about every year due to major engine or transmission problems, most of which were preventable. They do no preventative maintenance and don't even think about their cars until they don't start up one morning. Granted, these are not new cars. They buy them with high miles and think they can just gas up, turn the key, and forget about it. Then they wind up in a position where they have to buy a new car when they are broke and unprepared. I haven't had a serious problem with any of my vehicles in 10+ years which I attribute to maintenance.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

As for the Jeep... yeah, I've known people like that and cars like that. I'm sure he'd have no qualms about setting off cross-country in it, and would probably have a trouble-free trip. Then there's me... I'm absolutely meticulous, and would probably have a breakdown...



Yeah, it still gets driven a lot. Apparently a control arm bolt loosened up on it and just about came out, so that could have been bad but it was caught just in time. At least it will never rust due to the large amounts of various oils coating the underside.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

We all know the type ... they have a mid-mileage car (150k) that has never been maintained and it's a "giant POS".

The same people tell me I need to get rid of the Cherokee because it's too old and has too many miles.

Oil change when needed, spark plug change when needed, x,y,z, when needed ... I'd rather "waste" money now than have it bit me hard in a few years when something serious fails.

 

[Astro14]

You can tell from my signature where I fall in this discussion...

I simply can't understand the logic: I don't want to be troubled with doing maintenance (like checking the oil), but I don't mind several hundred $$ a month in lease payments...

??

 

[HerrStig]

I have heard stories (related to "sludge motor" claims) from a Toyota guy about how often the "little lady's" minivan turns up at the dealer with 20K on the clock and the FACTORY installed oil filter still in place. Apparently it ain't "MACHO" for hubbby to check a minivan's oil or see to it being serviced.

 

[bigjl]

In a lot of European cars it was considered normal to use a quart every 800 miles?

Haven't used quotes as using my phone.

But what cars does that apply to.

I have had many old cars.

1966 Austin A40 with 1098cc A series lump, needed occasional top ups but not by much, considering it was almost 25 yrs old at the time I was driving it to Uni' in usual teenager style I expect some oil usage.

One European car make that has historically used oil is VW, especially the petrol engines such as those in the Golf or Polo.

I think some restraint should be applied when saying cars may use oil, Europe is a very big place full of different countries, not just an amalgamation of states.

German cars are very different to French cars and they are very different to Italian cars, UK cars are now specialised and no longer made in any significant quantity.

Worst engine for needing top ups was the Rover V8 we had in the LDV Ambulances, but that was originally a Buick engine before head of BL bought the rights.

So to lump all European cars in the same category is to say that US Fords are the same as GM's.

Lets leave generalisations to politicians.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
We all know the type ... they have a mid-mileage car (150k) that has never been maintained and it's a "giant POS".

The same people tell me I need to get rid of the Cherokee because it's too old and has too many miles.

Oil change when needed, spark plug change when needed, x,y,z, when needed ... I'd rather "waste" money now than have it bit me hard in a few years when something serious fails.


I get the same thing about my "old" Cherokee. Then I remind them how they are riding in it on their way to the autoparts store because their "new" car had a problem.

 

[SLCraig]

Definitely a shame people won't check their oil. I don't check my oil at every fill up like OEMs suggest, but I do check it 4-5 times over an OCI and thats more than enough on a car that burns a half a quart topps over 6-7K miles.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Should people expect engines to run 100k miles with nothing but gas? Of course not.

Should they expect to have to check their oil frequently? That's a little less clear, IMO.

As always, the question is where to draw the line.


I agree with you on this one--I guess it depends on how you define "frequently". Every fill-up? While not a horrible idea, it seems a bit much. That said, given that cars are going with longer change intervals, one needs to check the oil level. If the owner isn't checking until the OLM comes on (which seems to be the case here), that's negligence--simple as that.

Truth is, this engine may have never really had a problem, until it was repeatedly run low on oil; using 2 quarts over 15K isn't a huge issue. My guess is that repeatedly running low made the consumption issue much worse than it was originally. I hate to say it, but with the increasing prevalence of OLM's and longer drains, a "low oil level" indicator seems like a pretty good idea.

 

[bigjl]

One good thing about Renaults.

They have been fitted with an accurate oil level dash gauge for years, since late eighties that I know of.

Basically there used to a gauge, I think it was oil temp?? But when you started the car it might up and displayed the oil level. But only when you started it, which is a good time to check oil level.

My wife's Clio has a digital version of the same thing, when you start the dash shows a message "engine level ok" and if you press the computer button on the stalk it will indicate the actual level.

It is displayed in several square blocks.

It has only ever dropped a couple of blocks over an OCI, I think the most was two or three when I was busy with other things and wife was doing nearly 800miles a week.

Since switching to Mobil 1 0w40 NewLife it has not dropped in 4000miles. Even if NL is the same as Turbo Diesel (not Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck) I suspect that the previous OC was with the previous formulation.

I am happy with no oil use in 4000miles in a turbo diesel with nearly 100k of urban and main road use, very little motorway/highway.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
In a lot of European cars it was considered normal to use a quart every 800 miles?

Haven't used quotes as using my phone.

But what cars does that apply to.

I have had many old cars.

1966 Austin A40 with 1098cc A series lump, needed occasional top ups but not by much, considering it was almost 25 yrs old at the time I was driving it to Uni' in usual teenager style I expect some oil usage.

One European car make that has historically used oil is VW, especially the petrol engines such as those in the Golf or Polo.

I think some restraint should be applied when saying cars may use oil, Europe is a very big place full of different countries, not just an amalgamation of states.

German cars are very different to French cars and they are very different to Italian cars, UK cars are now specialised and no longer made in any significant quantity.

Worst engine for needing top ups was the Rover V8 we had in the LDV Ambulances, but that was originally a Buick engine before head of BL bought the rights.

So to lump all European cars in the same category is to say that US Fords are the same as GM's.

Lets leave generalisations to politicians.

In fairness to Buick, Rover had many years to "perfect" the design. I got a kick out of the ones with SU carbs.