Oil advice for antique car

[Astro14]

Your engine likely called for a "medium cylinder oil" this time of year...and a "light cylinder oil" in the winter...today, we would call those 40 and 20 respectively.

Without knowing the history of the engine, I would be careful using a modern oil (i.e. detergent). The issue is the amount of sludge in the engine - there are a lot of guys with original (or older restored) engines who have run them only on non-detergent oil....which leads to sludge.

So, my recommendation is a 15W40 HDEO - first, it has lots of anti-wear additives (she's a flathead, and probably has flat-tappet lifters on that cam) and second, it meets the viscosity recommendations for that vintage (and Buick would have specified it if it existed back then!)...but, because of the unknown/likely use of non-detergent, change it very frequently at first, since the HDEO will start to clean right away and this engine has no real filter...

You want to change the oil very frequently on this anyway - fuel dilution from carbs of that vintage can be severe, the potential sludge issue, and the cooler temperatures at which it runs and the condensation from long periods of not running means that moisture builds up pretty quickly too.

I used to run the Packard on 30 in the winter and 40 in the summer...but 15W40 is better in every respect than those two...especially when you're trying to start a cold engine with a 6V starter...I think you'll find that's true in your car as well.

And post some pics!

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: SargeBB
I forgot to mention, you want the proper additive package in the oil you select for an old OHV engine like the one in your Buick. I'm NOT attempting to 'push' my Mobil 1 choice on you. The Mobil 1 10w40 or 15W-50 have plenty of phos., but so does any diesel engine oil in 15w40 conventional or 5W-40 (synthetic)...and the diesel oil would be great in that fine old car. Either viscosity would be fine, as well.


Sarge, you make a great point about 6V cranking and how well a modern synthetic flows at lower temps...how often do you change it in your vehicles?

Edit: wow...just found one on YouTube...so it's OHV... I would have bet it's a flathead (valve in block)?? OHV is pretty space-age for that era...very, very few cars had them...and I don't think Buick was one of those...Duesenberg had OHV...Marmon...Hispano-Suiza...I think...but Buick??

Who knew?

 

[Chris142]

my concern is the detergent oil picking up 90 yrs worth of contaminants and carrying it through the soft babbit bearings since the car won't have a filter.

If it had a filter I'd run a detergent oil. W/o a filter I'd only run a ND oil.... Carry on.

 

[Hendo]

Can a remote filter be retrofitted?

 

[SS1970chrysler]

Dropping the pan for cleaning was part of this car's maintenance schedule. The idea was that the dirt and contaminants would settle out of the oil and become trapped in the sludge in the bottom, instead of free flowing through the engine.
Definitely drop pan and clean it out.
If switching to detergent oil, do it gradually. I'm now using a 50/50 mix of 10w30 and 30wND in my 48 Packard. I had over a qt of sludge in the bottom of it when I first got it.

 

[SargeBB]

Astro 14, I change oil every year or so, something around 1,500 to 2,000 miles in the 2 old flathead MoPars. Both have cartridge filters, but the one in the old Dodge pickup's a sock-type...doesn't appear to filter any but very large contaminents. BTW, Baldwin still has both filters. My experience with old vehicles is that Wix or Baldwin are the best bets for new filters. If neither of them still have a particular old vehicle listed, NOS or a tractor parts house would likely be the only sources.

 

[bama7x57]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Does this OHV engine have exposed rocker arms, or does it have a valve cover? I always think about what might happen to exposed rockers due to exposure, and what lubricant they would need.

They have a loose fitting cover with ports for lubricating them. They are not lubed by the engine oil.

Here is a pic of the same year. Mine is not quite this nice.

The spark plugs and push rods are behind the side black cover. The top black cover is removable and loosely covers the rocker arms and tops of the push rods. Mine is missing the fancy oil ports and just uses an oil soaked sponge placed between rocker arms and cover. Notice the factory oil squirter.

 

[jjcom]

I use 15-40 in my Model A, never had an oil related issue. It keeps it happy when it's cold and doesn't have an issue starting...also keeps it quiet in the summer. ND SAE30 on 100 degree days seemed to leave the motor a little noisy. Extra tapping at idle. 15-40 keeps everything nice and quiet.

 

[morepwr]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: SargeBB
I forgot to mention, you want the proper additive package in the oil you select for an old OHV engine like the one in your Buick. I'm NOT attempting to 'push' my Mobil 1 choice on you. The Mobil 1 10w40 or 15W-50 have plenty of phos., but so does any diesel engine oil in 15w40 conventional or 5W-40 (synthetic)...and the diesel oil would be great in that fine old car. Either viscosity would be fine, as well.


Sarge, you make a great point about 6V cranking and how well a modern synthetic flows at lower temps...how often do you change it in your vehicles?

Edit: wow...just found one on YouTube...so it's OHV... I would have bet it's a flathead (valve in block)?? OHV is pretty space-age for that era...very, very few cars had them...and I don't think Buick was one of those...Duesenberg had OHV...Marmon...Hispano-Suiza...I think...but Buick??

Who knew?


Would you be surprised that Buick had factory roller lifters for their camshafts in some straight 8's back in the 1930's?

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: dparm
Very low detergency (TBN 1.4), won't attack seals.


Pardon for the interruption, but is TBN a basic measure of an oil's detergency? If it is that simple, one could measure an oil's general ability to clean by its starting TBN, but I can't believe that it's that simple. I'm not challenging the notion; I've simply never seen detergency correlated with TBN before, so I though I'd ask.


Sorry to everyone else because this is off topic from where the thread ended up. I just wanted to answer this question:

It's not that simple, but TBN does correlate with detergency a little bit. Calcium sulfonates which are used in detergents also help to improve the oil's ability to neutralize acids. This is a classic example as to how oil ingredients can perform multiple functions. So while having a high TBN could indicate a high level of detergent additives, its not always the case. This is also why TBN retention is never linear in oil analysis.

Thanks for letting me interupt... Carry on!

 

[Astro14]

Not at all surprised, since Packard had them in the 20's...

Folks would be surprised at the level of technology back then...cockpit adjustable suspension? Yep, Packard had that in 1932...

 

[crazyoildude]

rotella

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Not at all surprised, since Packard had them in the 20's...

Folks would be surprised at the level of technology back then...cockpit adjustable suspension? Yep, Packard had that in 1932...


Yes, but the technology was sporadic. WWII is where a lot of things we take for granted became standardized such as spin-on oil filters, air filters, and additives as GI's returning home saw how these contributed to durability and reliability...

 

[fraso]

I would use a 10w30 HDEO in your Buick. I've read through some Dodge manuals from the 1930s and I expect that Buick's 1923 recommendations wouldn't be a lot different. Normal summer-time operation called for SAE 30 and hot weather (average daily temperature above 90°F) called for SAE 40. Since the viscosity index of those old oils was not higher than 100, a modern 30-weight oil (the VI of 10w30 Rotella T is 155) should stay in-grade much better than those old SAE 40 oils.

Since these old engines have poor crankcase ventilation, I think the detergent/dispersants in HDEO are a better option than those in Starburst PCMO and the higher levels of ZDDP won't hurt either. I also think that the detergents in HDEO would work better in cleaning sludge than adding MMO or other solvents. Detergents work by binding to surfaces thereby lifting deposits. Dispersant keep contaminants from agglomerating in solution so they remain too small become a problem.

If your engine is sludged-up, I would change the oil more frequently until it starts taking a lot longer to blacken.

How does Detergents and Dispersant's work in oil?

Additives - Detergent - Dispersants

Re: List Ten Additives..

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair and other Engines (Bottom Line Recommendation #10)

I'm not clear how high detergency (high TBN) would be detrimental to seals. API service categories are supposed to be completely backwards compatible.

 

[mechtech2]

fraso -
API oils backwards compatible to what? 1923? Leather or rope seals?
That engine is worn and otherwise loose. a 15-40 is smart.
This is not a daily driver in winter conditions.

And most importantly, multigrades did not exist back then.

 

[fraso]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
API oils backwards compatible to what? 1923? Leather or rope seals?

If there was a performance specification back in 1923, it would have been equivalent to API SA. In what way(s) would an oil meeting the latest API service categories be incompatible with an API SA oil? How would a modern oil be incompatible with leather or rope seals?

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
That engine is worn and otherwise loose. a 15-40 is smart. This is not a daily driver in winter conditions.

The OP said the engine is original and runs - no mention of problems. SAE 30 was commonly specified for temperatures above 32°F.

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
And most importantly, multigrades did not exist back then.

Why would a straight grade be any better than a multigrade in this engine?

 

[Garak]

@fraso: mechtech2 is just using the adage better safe than sorry, and I wouldn't blame him for that. A number of years ago, when using 1951 vintage vehicles on the farm in the summer, we used 10w30 PCMO, around API SH and older. The use was heavy, and it worked fine. The engine neither burned nor leaked oil, astonishingly, so there was no incentive to thicken things up. That being said, my dad believed "thin is in" long before it became fashionable, and would likely have preferred to pull and rebuild a motor rather than go anywhere near a 40 straight grade or multigrade of any sort, or any straight grade for that matter, in a gasser.

If the engine is worn, well, a thicker oil might certainly be in order, and if it were me, I wouldn't be averse to a 15w40. In defence of your position, though, a 10w30 HDEO will be significantly thicker than a 10w30 PCMO (even thicker than something like Defy), anyhow.