Oil additive benefits for 5W-20?

[Cmobile]

I have a Mercury Mariner Hybrid that requires 5w-20 oil. It has 55k miles and I have owned it for the past 10k of those miles. I run synthetic (currently Valvoline SynPower)

While on a trip, I encountered headwinds of 50+mph. To maintain speed, the RPM was 4500-6000 RPM for most of the 350 mile trip.

After reading this article, "Motor Oils-Fuel Economy vs. Wear" by Machinery Lubrication http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils I now have some doubt about the 5w-20.

Is there an additive that will help?, STP, Lucas, or some Boron or ZDDP additive that isn't overpriced that would benefit this engine?

During the winter, it is just a daily driver, but summer time is when I do some traveling. Perhaps just running the additive during the summer or just on trips?
Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

 

[NHGUY]

LubroMoly Moly additive is always a good choice.

 

[Rand]

I wouldnt use an additive but if you are going to run at 4500-6000 for hours you might want to go to 5w30 or at least install an oil temp gauge.

 

[dave1251]

If you are going to run at higher RPM's and feel like you could use more additives. It would be better to change your oil a little earlier and spend a little money on a UOA.

 

[HerrStig]

The question is... why was 5-20 specified for this vehicle? Was it just for fuel economy?

 

[TallPaul]

Redline 5w20 has double the anti wear additive of off-the-shelf oil, and an HTHS viscosity of a 30 weight. Great for high stress oil applications.

 

[Quest]

Lemme see: been using 5W20 since 1999 (7th gen civic, D17A1) and now 2 out of our 3 vehicles are on 5W20 regimen (2 Hondas), cumulative mileage over a quarter of million kms clocked so far using 5W20.

Never have a single worry RE: 5W20 being inferior/incapable of lubricating(protecting) an engine so far.

You prolly read too much about those "5W20 is like water...your engine will grind itself into a pulp, etc. postings back in the early 00s....and started to worry about it?!

Yes, it is true that per EPA fuel economy objectives: most vehicles previously run on 10W30 or 5W30 now runs on 5W20.

No, with much more stringent requirements on oil these days (must pass various major automobile manufacturers valvetrain wear standards, etc.), and the requirements of API SN/ILSAC GF5, even conventional oils are pretty much a Gp II+ blend, and more stout than what oils avail 15 yrs ago.

Bottomline. no need to add additional additives to your oil so long as you opt for national name brand oil. You can even go fancy with syn if you like.

Lastly: Ford has been testing/aligning their automobile R&D for over 10yrs now to go with 5W20, and with that viscosity grade been their standards all across the board (including F150, etc.), I simply cannot see why you cannot use 5W20 in your hybrid with satisfaction?

(**hybrids are very easily on the oil, do you know that?**)

Q.

 

[chubbs1]

You DO NOT need extra additives. Current GF-5/SN oils have all that you need for engine protection. On a side note 5w20's tend to have better basestocks (in general) when compared to 5w30's in the same class.

As said before, if you want to do a UOA to see how things are going that is great. Stick with 5w20 especially in your climate, a quicker flowing oil will suit you better.

 

[Solarent]

Because no one else has said it.... WELCOME to BITOG

Now on to your questions:

This article is from 2003, and while it makes some good points, IMO it fails to point out the reason that oil trends have gone to lighter viscosity. In addition to the fuel economy benefit, engine design has changed significantly and oil has had to change to match.

It used to be (20 years ago) that viscosity played a large role in preventing wear; however today it is more related to the additive chemistry which contains not only ZDDP and Moly compounds but other antiwear additive combinations that may or may not show up on a typical UOA. These combinations are a delicate science that additive companies (like Afton, Lubrizol etc) who make the additive packages used by most of the major oil brands discourage the use of 3rd party additives and aftermarket products.

In your case, STP and LUCAS are basically additional VII (I don't know the formula but what I've seen on chemical analysis I am fairly confident this is the case) and probably would not be of any benefit vs using a thicker oil. There are some other antiwear additives on the market that are sometimes hard to find and are designed to work with existing oil formulations. I would however caution to not fall to marketing hype about aftermarket zddp, boron on liquid titanium products. These products may provide some marginal benefits, but are mostly companies trying to capitalize on existing market trends.

So the short answer is - do a UOA. If it shows that your additive package is depleting or you have unusually high wear metals than that would mean there could be benefits found in using properly designed additives. Or by following the trends you could find an oil other than the SynPower that maybe works better for your specific circumstances.

If you don't want to do the work, continue to use the 5w20, as the SynPower is a great oil and avoid extremely long oil drains.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

My CR-V revs high when climbing hills for long periods of time on my business travel. Usually it's between 3k and 4.5k when climbing.

Lifelong 5w20 oil user without adds and I have 153k trouble-free miles, noises, consumption, etc. Valves were adjusted and mechanic said there wasn't any visible wear or issues.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Cmobile

While on a trip, I encountered headwinds of 50+mph. To maintain speed, the RPM was 4500-6000 RPM for most of the 350 mile trip.



If this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon for you, then I think you should spend the time and $$ to install an oil temperature and/or pressure gauge. I've never heard of any passenger car operating in that RPM range for 5+ continuous hours. I'd be concerned with any oil which wasn't A3 rated under those conditions, and I say that as a big proponent of thinner oils. Those seem to be some highly unusual conditions.

 

[Ken2]

As said above, the article is old, two generations of oil specs old. That article was for ILSAC GF-3 oil (also API SL). Now we have GF-5 (also API SN). While oil viscosity does bear a relationship to the oil film thickness in the bearing, there is much more to it including the additive package. Also very important but not mentioned is the area of the bearing vs. the load on it. If the size of the bearing surface is ample, the load per unit area (the psi of the load) is modest. The long engine life of engines like yours shows that there is no problem. An example is the bearings of a very large diesel engine...7500 hp per cylinder using 30 wt crankcase oil, and the bearings run full power around the clock for a month at a time without a break for years.

By the way, the high rpm operation of your engine reduces wear. It might very slightly increase the ring and cylinder wear, not significantly, though, but the higher rpms creates a stronger wedge of oil in the bearings that holds the parts apart...notice the wedge-shaped oil area in the pic in that article.

 

[vinu_neuro]

All the additives you need are in the oil. Use a good oil and forget your worries. My car sits at 4k+ rpm on the highway for hours at a time due to gearing.

 

[mechtech2]

I use Lubro Moly in my oil [Mos2].

"Need" is a highly variable and obscure term.

I would be uncomfortable with 4.5-6k RPM for hours at a time.
Seems way high - what were the designers thinking?

 

[1999nick]

I was just wondering-5000 to 6000rpm for all those hours. How was your fuel mileage after 5 hours of this? You must have had to stop at least once to refuel.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Quest

You prolly read too much about those "5W20 is like water...your engine will grind itself into a pulp, etc. postings back in the early 00s....and started to worry about it?!

At a sustained 5000-6000RPM, there will be significant heat build up in the cylinders and bearings, likely 5W-20 would be about like water...

As others mentioned, this application should have a oil temp gauge, if it's over 210* I'd switch to 5w-30 in the summer...

 

[Zako2]

I wouldn't bother with additives. If you have a reason to think that your oil is too thin, then get a thicker oil.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
[
At a sustained 5000-6000RPM, there will be significant heat build up in the cylinders and bearings, likely 5W-20 would be about like water...

As others mentioned, this application should have a oil temp gauge, if it's over 210* I'd switch to 5w-30 in the summer...


@ TFB1:

Never have I, in any of my wordings in my response to OP: mentioned anything about sustained 5000~6000rpm?!!!!

So, I assume you are responding to someone else's posting and not mine?

Q.

 

[Cmobile]

Thanks for the thoughtful and edifying responses.
I didn't stop to think about that article being so old. I just read the article and it made me a bit nervous.

Sustained wasn't really accurate. The 400 mile trip from just North of Colorado Springs to Albuquerque is often met with a head wind. (Though rarely 50+mph) I did stop to let my labs go potty twice and I stopped in Las Vegas, NM for fuel. Going down Raton Pass RPMs were 1500-2k (down hill) and the occasional semi passing each other taking up both lanes. But other than that, it was mostly above 4500RPM.

I believe the vehicle has an elaborate temperature system for the transmission, electric motors, high voltage battery and engine oil. Though they only show when there is a problem in my display screen. So I can't determine actual temp, only over-temp.

I usually get 30mpg (has all wheel drive) overall MPG, but straight highway yields 27-29. This trip I think I got 20mpg to Las Vegas.

I think I will invest in 5k full synthetic oil changes and a UOA. I see Blackstone a lot on here, but I have Titan labs in Denver. Does it matter where I get my UOA?

Thanks again for the responses.
~C

 

[Cmobile]

Thanks for your reply. Not worried abut the "5W20 is like water...your engine will grind itself into a pulp, etc. postings back in the early 00s" as much as the article I posted which seemed somewhat reputable. (albeit outdated I learned)

That article threw me, thanks for reminding me about Ford testing the engines and oil for 10 years now. It is used in much higher HP producing engines than my little hybrid.

(**hybrids are very easily on the oil, do you know that?**)
I agree with this statement for In Town use only. On the highway, that little 120 HP engine has to run at pretty high RPM to keep up with the flow of traffic. And the E-motors only assist at highway speeds for a short distance before the battery needs recharcging.