OEM Oil Filters vs After Market

[AmoryBlaine]

Are the manufacturer's oil filters any better than the after market oil filters, such as Fram, or Napa store brand, or anything else? I have found both Honda and Hyundai filters on eBay, ranging from $3-$4 a piece, when purchased in bulk.

 

[Nate1979]

What is your definition of better? Remember that no OEM manufacturers oil filters so they are all actually produced by the same group of companies. For example Fram/Champ labs makes AC Delco, Subaru, but also Fram, Mobil 1, Royal Purple etc filters.

 

[razel]

When I used to tear oil filters apart and measure the filter area, the Nissan and Honda OEMs were equivalent to the mid-level filters available from Fram and Purolator. Only difference being the price. The equivalent Fram TG and Purolator PureOnes can be bought cheaper than OEM when on sale.

Now-a-days I just buy the Fram Synths primarily because the Honda/Toyota OEMs cost about as much and I don't like that it takes 2 trips and VERY slow lines to two different counters to buy from the parts/service cashier department at my local Nissan/Toyota.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
What is your definition of better? Remember that no OEM manufacturers oil filters so they are all actually produced by the same group of companies. For example Fram/Champ labs makes AC Delco, Subaru, but also Fram, Mobil 1, Royal Purple etc filters.


I didn't know this! Thanks for sharing. I wonder what else is manufactured by others, that the car maker just puts their brand on?

 

[goodtimes]

Except Toyota, they own all or a good part of Denso. The thing about OE is it is the same quality as was on the new car. Whatever is said about Amsoil graphs and gravity tube efficiency tests on Toyota oil filters, they are in the new 90K Lexus someone drives away in from the dealer, and if serviced the dealer puts another one on.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
What is your definition of better? Remember that no OEM manufacturers oil filters so they are all actually produced by the same group of companies. For example Fram/Champ labs makes AC Delco, Subaru, but also Fram, Mobil 1, Royal Purple etc filters.


I didn't know this! Thanks for sharing. I wonder what else is manufactured by others, that the car maker just puts their brand on?


Pretty much everything? It varies by brand and model.

There are vehicles that are manufactured entirely on 3rd party manufacturing lines; and the auto industry is nothing if not 3rd party suppliers under contract to OEMs. Magna International makes the interiors for probably the majority of cars made in North America, for example.

Denso makes all the Asian brand's alternators. There are a handful of transmission manufacturers ... a Dodge ¾ ton and a GM ¾ ton brake calliper is the exact same part, neither manufactured by Chrysler or General Motors. Any filter or other consumable is made by a 3rd party.

Really, your question is too complex to answer without reference to specific vehicles.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
What is your definition of better? Remember that no OEM manufacturers oil filters so they are all actually produced by the same group of companies. For example Fram/Champ labs makes AC Delco, Subaru, but also Fram, Mobil 1, Royal Purple etc filters.


I didn't know this! Thanks for sharing. I wonder what else is manufactured by others, that the car maker just puts their brand on?


Pretty much everything? It varies by brand and model.

There are vehicles that are manufactured entirely on 3rd party manufacturing lines; and the auto industry is nothing if not 3rd party suppliers under contract to OEMs. Magna International makes the interiors for probably the majority of cars made in North America, for example. Really, your question is too complex to answer without reference to specific vehicles.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: AmoryBlaine
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
What is your definition of better? Remember that no OEM manufacturers oil filters so they are all actually produced by the same group of companies. For example Fram/Champ labs makes AC Delco, Subaru, but also Fram, Mobil 1, Royal Purple etc filters.


I didn't know this! Thanks for sharing. I wonder what else is manufactured by others, that the car maker just puts their brand on?


Pretty much everything? It varies by brand and model.

There are vehicles that are manufactured entirely on 3rd party manufacturing lines; and the auto industry is nothing if not 3rd party suppliers under contract to OEMs. Magna International makes the interiors for probably the majority of cars made in North America, for example. Really, your question is too complex to answer without reference to specific vehicles.


True, like Daewoo cars with the Chevrolet badge. The Spark, and maybe the Sonic as well, among others.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Except Toyota, they own all or a good part of Denso. The thing about OE is it is the same quality as was on the new car. Whatever is said about Amsoil graphs and gravity tube efficiency tests on Toyota oil filters, they are in the new 90K Lexus someone drives away in from the dealer, and if serviced the dealer puts another one on.
I've seen no RATIONAL reason to suggest that Toyota would put an inferior quality factory filter on their vehicles, or sell them as replacements The usual "they want the car to wear out so you'll buy another" argument does not address the fact that with care Toyota products can have a long life and many who see that long life use the OEM filters.

 

[NHGUY]

The OEM filters are NOT made by the OEMs.In fact,they make virtually nothing,most carmakers are merely assemblers now (unlike the old days).They contract to Mann & Hummel,Champion Labs,WIX.....etc for their filters,however they usually dictate the specs.So the name brand and "private" label filter may be slightly different.I would say that no OEM filter is junk,but there are "better" ingredients in some of the top line filters.Your engine probably would never notice the difference,unless you do 8-10K oil changes.....

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I've seen no RATIONAL reason to suggest that Toyota would put an inferior quality factory filter on their vehicles, or sell them as replacements The usual "they want the car to wear out so you'll buy another" argument does not address the fact that with care Toyota products can have a long life and many who see that long life use the OEM filters.

One of the worse statement that people assign to any manufacture.

Toyota Camry was the best selling family sedan the last 5-10 years. What was/is the best attribute to make it the best seller ? Reliability is the main attribute.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Toyota Camry was the best selling family sedan the last 5-10 years. What was/is the best attribute to make it the best seller ? Reliability is the main attribute.


Same goes for Honda too, and really most any manufacturer especially here in the US. I've been using the Toyota OEM and/or Denso filters for nearly the whole lifetime of both my Toyota vehicles. Plus I've used Honda OEM filters on my Honda, none of which use any excessive oil whatsoever. For me that means that if they are the "rock catchers" everyone seems to believe they are then oil filter efficiency ratings mean next to nothing. Just another marketing gimmick like so many stats and ratings.

It also seems like people read the efficiency ratings as an absolute rather than the probability that they are in the real world. A less efficient filter is going to catch the same particles as a more efficient one, given subsequent passes through the media.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
It also seems like people read the efficiency ratings as an absolute rather than the probability that they are in the real world. A less efficient filter is going to catch the same particles as a more efficient one, given subsequent passes through the media.


True ... but theoretically a less efficient filter lets way more of those particles go through the system many times over before they are all filtered out. Example of filtering out a million 20 micron particles with two different efficiency filters is shown in the table below.

On a theoretical basis, the 50% @ 20 micron filter would let all 1 million particles go through the system, whereas the 99% @ 20 micron filter would only let 10,101 of those particles go through the system (~100 times less total particles).

 

[kschachn]

Well, it really comes down to how many "particles" there really are in the oil, how many are of a type (metallic?) that could cause damage, how many of those are of a size to cause damage, and what percentage of the oil flows through an area where potential damage could occur. No one to my knowledge has ever posted details that address those questions. One tends to think that in an operating engine only a relatively small amount of the oil in circulation at any one time is in an area that could cause damage.

I get what you are saying in that chart but at the same time I can't discount the supposed filtering efficiencies of the OEM filters and the demonstrated longevity of engines (like mine) that are operated on them. You get the idea that within reason it just doesn't matter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Well, it really comes down to how many "particles" there really are in the oil, how many are of a type (metallic?) that could cause damage, how many of those are of a size to cause damage, and what percentage of the oil flows through an area where potential damage could occur. No one to my knowledge has ever posted details that address those questions. One tends to think that in an operating engine only a relatively small amount of the oil in circulation at any one time is in an area that could cause damage.


Too many unknowns and what-ifs ... so I just choose to use filters on the high side of efficiency to negate all those unknowns.

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I get what you are saying in that chart but at the same time I can't discount the supposed filtering efficiencies of the OEM filters and the demonstrated longevity of engines (like mine) that are operated on them. You get the idea that within reason it just doesn't matter.


I suppose ... and I bet if someone changed oil religiously every 3K miles and didn't even run an oil filter that the car would probably last longer than they would want to keep it anyway.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Quote:
On a theoretical basis, the 50% @ 20 micron filter would let all 1 million particles go through the system, whereas the 99% @ 20 micron filter would only let 10,101 of those particles go through the system (~100 times less total particles).

Sure, but does it make any real-world difference in the life of an engine? Maybe the only thing you need is a rock catcher for the really big stuff.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ See post above yours. The "need" is based on the desire of the person putting on the oil filter.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Too many unknowns and what-ifs ... so I just choose to use filters on the high side of efficiency to negate all those unknowns.


Well maybe, but then on the other hand it's always the hypothetical "1,000,000 particles" argument that I've never seen substantiated either - all 1,000,000 of which are implied to be dangerous. Lots of unknowns on both sides, with only the supposed low efficiency ratings of the OEM Japanese filters to say otherwise.

 

[double vanos]

And to think old VW air cooled engines got by with only a sump screen.....

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Well, it really comes down to how many "particles" there really are in the oil, how many are of a type (metallic?) that could cause damage, how many of those are of a size to cause damage, and what percentage of the oil flows through an area where potential damage could occur. No one to my knowledge has ever posted details that address those questions. One tends to think that in an operating engine only a relatively small amount of the oil in circulation at any one time is in an area that could cause damage.


Too many unknowns and what-ifs ... so I just choose to use filters on the high side of efficiency to negate all those unknowns.

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I get what you are saying in that chart but at the same time I can't discount the supposed filtering efficiencies of the OEM filters and the demonstrated longevity of engines (like mine) that are operated on them. You get the idea that within reason it just doesn't matter.


I suppose ... and I bet if someone changed oil religiously every 3K miles and didn't even run an oil filter that the car would probably last longer than they would want to keep it anyway.


You also need to know the incoming particle rate. It's not a closed system by far. Catching a particle on the second pass only makes sense in a closed system or one in which the filter is able to remove more than the incoming particle rate.

 

[901Memphis]

ZeeOSix, I am being told that the Fram Ultras are now 99.9% across the line by Motorking, can you do that chart with 99.9% instead of 99.0?