Odyssey calls for 5w20 uhno

[jjbula]

quote:

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Originally posted by ex_MGB:

If Honda recommended 5W-20 in Japan and Europe, their customers would see this as an American conspiracy....
Americans are a lot more receptive to change than the rest of the world.

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I've been thinking about that too. The Japanese are just as fearful of using thinner oils as Americans. Also, look at Sprintman from Oz(Aussies). He gets nervous when he uses a "thin" 10w40. I think the folks down under could use some rethinking on oil viscosity, just like the Americans.

BTW--why do people feel the need to explain edits to their posts???

[ December 24, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[Jay]

I don't feel the need to explain edits in my posts.

edit: I edited my post to make sense.

[ December 25, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]

 

[MNgopher]

Speaking of running 26 psi in your tires, I drove a relatives Honda CRV this week. Any guess what the recommended Air Pressure was? Surprise: 26psi, front and rear.

 

[joee12]

Guys, I just posted a virgin analysis of Honda 5W20, and will have the first analysis of the used oil in a couple of months:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000031
-Joe

 

[Racer X]

quote:

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Originally posted by MNgopher:
Speaking of running 26 psi in your tires, I drove a relatives Honda CRV this week. Any guess what the recommended Air Pressure was? Surprise: 26psi, front and rear.

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He he! If I ran pressure that low, the outer shoulder of my tires would be gone in no time.

I usually run 37 rear, 42 front in my Windstar, which recommends 32 all around. In general you want to maintain the factory difference (in this case zero) between front and rear pressures, but for heaven's sake, the front must have 60% of the weight and 90% of the wear on a Windstar, and you just have to run more pressure on the heavy end. I don't know what Ford was thinking with a zero differential, maybe they're assuming you run a full load of cargo all the time.

The factory recommended pressures are IMHO, minimum pressures, which give the softest ride. Also IMHO, the best indicator of proper tire pressure is the difference between treadwear in the center and the fastest-wearing shoulder (your alignment determines which shoulder wears the fastest). Ideally you would have no difference.

Back on topic, if only tangentially, your fuel economy is far more affected by tire pressure than oil viscosity. Keep 'em hard for less rolling resistance.

Fully on topic: All grades of oil flow like water when hot. The higher-vis oils provide more protection at the expense of some small power loss. Lets not forget, the wear rate is practically the same as long as there's a film between the moving parts, and anyone who believes that the film can be squeezed out easier with a XW20 than an XW30 is absolutely right. The question is, does the engine stress the oil to that point? Not if the engineers did their job right. Trust no one might be a good philosophy, especially this early in the game! But with the right EP package, the XW20 oils should be fine.

Finally, I wouldn't balk at substituting higher vis oils in any engine, as long as the shear stability and cold starting properties are appropriate for the circumstances. Echoing a previous post, heck yes, we would all run higher vis oils if we didn't care about cold starts and fuel efficiency. Why else would the OTR diesel engines run such high vis oil? For them the engine life is the most important thing.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Not only do they recommend those pressures for softest ride, but to ensure understeer at the limit. Higher front pressure as you have (and I run on my car) will reduce understeer and even if severe enough, cause oversteer.

Or pressures will be recommend extremely low on certain SUVs in order to reduce overall grip so to avoid the dreaded dumassus flippusoveris but also makes the vehicle extremely sensitive to the species of driver known as ignoramus overloadus thus causing maximus heatus delaminationitis. Ironically, in the hands of this species of driver, leading to the condition originally trying to avoid.

 

[Giles]

My Ford '02 Explorer specifies 29psi tire pressure all the way around. I use 31-32 but it does make for a bumpy ride.

 

[metroplex]

Mobil said that the 5W-20 is used for gas mileage.

Stick with 5W-30 or 0W-30 synthetic.

 

[Flimflam]

Originally posted by Pablo:
[QB] I detect irony here. Good thread, good laughs but ironic none the less.


Obviously a 5W-20 oil is garbage? Based on? Oh that's right, the thicker the better. I ruined a Datsun 510 engine when I was 16 using Castrol 20W-50 with this logic. As Patman says (have I ever disagreed with thatman?) - look at the wear numbers!!!


Care to give us more information on how you ruined that Datsun engine with Castrol 20W-50? How many miles did you run the Datsun on 20W-50? I am curious because I am an inveterate rebel against those darn owners manuals. They keep telling me to use 5W-30 and 10W-30 when I know that these lightweight oils will not hold up to my style of extended high speed driving in hot weather. In my experience, using 2 to 3 grades heavier than the manual recommends will not hurt the engine. But maybe your experience is different.

 

[Patman]

I don't think using 2 or 3 grades more than the recommendation is good advice. An engine calling for 5w20 would certainly have troubles with a 20w50. Having too thick an oil on a tight clearance engine is a recipe for early engine failure, the oil will not be pumped properly by the oil pump.

This is my new theory I've come up with after being here since day one. When an engine is brand new, use what the manual says, or at the very highest, just step up half a grade. When I say half a grade, I mean that if the oil calls for 5w20 and you want more, go with a low 5w30 (viscosity of around 10cst at 100c) If your manual calls for 5w30 and you want more, go with a high 30wt (something around 12cst at 100c) As your engine ages, if you see your wear numbers getting worse, then try stepping up a little more yet again. If you were using a 10w30, then try out a 10w40 or 15w40. There aren't too many engines out there that need 20w50 though, save that for engines built with very large clearances. As always, oil analysis is your best friend, it can help you see exactly which viscosity oil is best suited for your exact engine. I'm going to try to determine this myself on my next few oil changes.

[ January 21, 2003, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Ray H]

Prior to the deeply lamented loss of my '96 Honda Accord (Yeah, I totaled it.), I picked up an oil filter for it at the dealer. The parts counter guy ripped off a 3 x 5" sheet from a pad and stapled it to the invoice. When I got home, I picked the sheet up and read it. It was pre-printed from American Honda and extolled the virtues of 5W-20 weight oil in general, and Honda's brand in particular -for Honda models that specify that weight range-. However, at the end, it chillingly advised that, -again, only for Honda models that specify that weight range- 5W-20 is the -required- oil in Honda engines for warranty claims. I don't believe for one moment that 5W-30 or 10W-30 would damage any Honda or Acura automotive engine, nor do I suspect the dealer or American Honda would actually have the oil (or its remnants) analyzed for weight grade in the event an owner presented a warranty claim on an engine that tanked, but, who's to really know? Ford is advising that certain of their engines are to use the 5W-20 weight range, too. I suspect this recommendation will gather steam sooner rather than later. It makes some sense that the U.S. is the guinea pig in this. Obviously (There's -that- word again...), there are CAFE/EPA considerations, but, think about it: where else do you have such varied climate extremes? In my little corner of the world, during the winter months, it's possible to go from the low-to-mid 90s (F.) in southern California's low desert to below freezing just traveling from Palm Springs to the Sierras on a day trip.

-Ray Haeffele

 

[tenderloin]

Out of my last 4 automobiles (3 still owned), NONE have USED any only between changes of around 5,000 miles. Oils used have been 5W-30, 0W-30, 3W30 and 0W-20. Current high mileage beater van is '97 AWD Aerostar 4.0L.

It seems it depends on some part on the engines.

.

[ January 21, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]

 

[Dr. T]

Hey Patman, 3715 posts later...I don't think that qualifies as a "new theory".

But, seriously I used to be like you. I used to look at that stuff 15-50, 20-50 on the shelves gathering dust and said: "out of all the cars I have owned, seen, spoke to other people about...which one's actually recommend these grades?" The answer is "almost none". So what are they for? When the engine's worn, then you use them? Why not prevent or stop engine wear in the first place? (and I'm not talking Slick 50)

All I have left to say is that I have yet to own a vehicle that DID NOT consume oil when 5-30 was used over a 5k mi. interval...synthetic or not. Where is this consumption on a new engine going? It's burning off...does it matter in the long run? Why do manuals say: "normal driving 5k mi. and severe 3k mi. oil changes". Who drives normal? So we're down to 1. use 5-30 every 3k because it won't survive much past this because we all drive severe. That's why nobody uses 5-30 in Europe.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
Hey Patman, 3715 posts later...I don't think that qualifies as a "new theory".

But, seriously I used to be like you. I used to look at that stuff 15-50, 20-50 on the shelves gathering dust and said: "out of all the cars I have owned, seen, spoke to other people about...which one's actually recommend these grades?" The answer is "almost none". So what are they for? When the engine's worn, then you use them? Why not prevent or stop engine wear in the first place? (and I'm not talking Slick 50)

All I have left to say is that I have yet to own a vehicle that DID NOT consume oil when 5-30 was used over a 5k mi. interval...synthetic or not. Where is this consumption on a new engine going? It's burning off...does it matter in the long run? Why do manuals say: "normal driving 5k mi. and severe 3k mi. oil changes". Who drives normal? So we're down to 1. use 5-30 every 3k because it won't survive much past this because we all drive severe. That's why nobody uses 5-30 in Europe.

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I've never owned a car that recommended 5w30 that used any oil between oil changes at 5000 to 6000 mile intervals, which proves nothing, I know. But it does show that you can't universally say that all engines are going to consume 5w30.

No one uses 5w30 in Europe? Well, of the six oils sold in Europe that currently meet the toughest OEM spec of any manufacturer (MB's 229.5), FIVE of them are 5w30. Also, 0w30 is the factory fill in virtually all VW and Audi vehicles.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Obviously priority is shifting to economy in Europe as well, a la CAFE. Maybe not same reasons but seems to be the case. Hence ACEA A5, MB 229.5, Etc.