Odyssey calls for 5w20 uhno

mebanditws6 · Dec 20, 2002

Considering fewer and fewer people work on their own cars, much less some not knowing much more than the difference between the gas and brake pedals and how to open and close the doors, if I were writing the owners manual, I probably would write them in similar manner. It's all about letting the dealer take care of all the problems/maintenance even if it means paying an arm and a leg for parts and labor.

On the other hand, part of the reason for these new owners manuals treating us like idiots is the companies trying to cover their rears from some idot/crook filing a lawsuits if a company doesn't warn in the manual that gas is flammable and flammable substances should be kept away when refueling. I'm exagerating a bit but you get my point.

Jason

mkosem · Dec 20, 2002

what is the crankcase capacity of that 6.8L engine? I'm betting it's prety large.

--Matt

joee12 · Dec 20, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by mkosem:
what is the crankcase capacity of that 6.8L engine? I'm betting it's prety large.

--Matt

6.5 quarts!!! -Joe

MNgopher · Dec 21, 2002

I chuckle at the arguements that this small engine is harder on the oil than a big engine and vice versa. In other threads, there is a constant you should never use 5w20 in a high power V8 or V10, the engine will destroy itself. Then the small engine guys say no 5w20 because their motors really tear up the oil. I'm getting the feeling that engine size doesn't matter - some folks will never accept a 5w20 oil.

My personal gut feeling: Engine size in itself isn't the issue: the way a particular engine model abuses the oil is what does matter. Some big engines are hard on oil, some aren't, and the same holds true for small engines. In engines where 5w20 has been recommended, the numbers have been looking pretty good, so far.

I believe the 6.8l has a listed capacity of 6 quarts, as does the 4.6l and 5.4l V8's in F series applications. Anywhere from 6 to 7 quarts will result in hitting the full mark depending on oil coolers and the like.

[ December 22, 2002, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]

tenderloin · Dec 21, 2002

I am old enough to remember the resistance to multi weight oils, then lighter multi weight oils, then synthetics, now super lightweight oils.

I use Synergyn 0W-20 year round in So Cal with complete confidence, in a 2.0 DOHC Zetec, a 4.0L V6 Ford as well as a 4.6L V8 Ford.

None uses any oil between 5,000 mi changes. More MPG (fact) and butt dyno says more HP!

Patman · Dec 21, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by MNgopher:
I chuckle at the arguements that this small engine is harder then the oil than a big engine and vice versa. In other threads, there is a constant you should never use 5w20 in a high power V8 or V10, the engine will destroy itself. The the small engine guys say no 5w20 because their motors really tear up the oil. I'm getting the feeling that engine size doesn't matter - some folks will never accept a 5w20 oil.

My personal gut feeling: Engine size in itself isn't the issue: the way a particular engine model abuses the oil is what does matter. Some big engines are hard on oil, some aren't, and the same holds true for small engines. In engines where 5w20 has been recommended, the numbers have been looking pretty good, so far.

I agree totally with everything you said here! I own two different cars, one with a big engine and large oil capacity (350ci, 5.5 quarts of oil) and one small engine with a small oil capacity (1.6L, 3.8 quarts of oil) Both of these engines appear to be very easy on the oil, even with the hard driving they see.

So it's not the size or sometimes even oil capacity that is the final word on how hard an engine is on oil. Sure, the bigger the oil capacity the better, however one engine of one design could have a higher oil capacity than another and yet still be harder on the oil. That's why oil analysis is so important, as you need to determine this on a case by case basis.

jjbula · Dec 21, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by tenderloin:
I am old enough to remember the resistance to multi weight oils, then lighter multi weight oils, then synthetics, now super lightweight oils.

I use Synergyn 0W-20 year round in So Cal with complete confidence, in a 2.0 DOHC Zetec, a 4.0L V6 Ford as well as a 4.6L V8 Ford.

None uses any oil between 5,000 mi changes. More MPG (fact) and butt dyno says more HP!

I'd love to see an analysis of the 0w20, especially in the V6 or the V8. I think you would find some converts if it looks good, including yours truly.

Roger · Dec 21, 2002

I agree that it is engine-dependent. On my 3.0 V6 Escape, Motorcraft 5W20 had a TBN of just 4.5 after 3,250 miles. One thing I've learned about oil, its as much the engine as it is the oil. I have 4 cars, and have evolved to the point where I now use 4 different oils for them. Still looking for the best oil in each application, but have long given up on finding the best "one size fits all" oil.

motorsports_for_me · Dec 21, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by OneQuartLow:
The Japanese 2002 manual specifies 5W30, 5W40, or 10W30. Though more of us may move toward xw20 if products prove themselves, it's an EPA thing for now. We're the test rats.

http://www.honda.co.jp/manual/odyssey/2003/8-service-data/service-data4.html#1

David

motorsports_for_me · Dec 22, 2002

Onequartlow, you got me thinking about what Honda Japan specifies vs Honda Canada. I drive a Civic SiR with the 2 ltr engine that calls for 5w-20. When scanning the Japanese pages I found the High performance 2 ltr engines (aprox 200+HP) in the type R cars recommend 5w-30 and 5W-40 in all climates and 10W-30 only in climates above -20c. All other 2 ltr engines add 0W-20 to the climate chart as the default all temperature multi grade. It would sure be nice if some official from Honda or Ford would state the low down on C.A.F.E.. As we have seen with other posts, engines calling for 10w-30 or 5W-30 one year switched to 5W-20 the next. One thing I will say about the 5W-20, the car sure starts up nice in colder climes compared to my 92 Civic Si with 10W-30. You would never know it was below freezing. Sooo for the cold weather I'm using Petro Canada 5W-20 Supreme.

satterfi · Dec 22, 2002

Dr. T.

You got that right.

Ken2 · Dec 23, 2002

Overlooked in all this discussion of the merits, or lack thereof, of 5W-20 oil is the fact that it has to meet some higher specs than the other viscosities:
"Ford and Honda have actually established test limits for SAE 5W-20 engine oils that go beyond the requirements of API SL/ILSAC GF-3. Ford requires either a double-length (160 hours) Sequence IIIF test or a double-length (128 hours) Sequence IIIE test with a maximum viscosity increase of 200%. The corresponding limits for the single-length tests are 275% maximum and 375% maximum, respectively. In addition, Ford’s limit for high temperature deposits in the TEOST MHT-4 test is 30 mg maximum compared with 45 mg maximum allowed under API SL/ILSAC GF-3. Similarly, Honda also requires a double-length Sequence IIIF test or a double-length Sequence IIIE test, but the viscosity limits are the same as the single-length tests. Obviously, meeting either of these
requirements is very difficult. Again, higher quality base oils and/or significantly higher
levels of antioxidant are required."
(From a 76 (ConocoPhillips) publication)

Here's a description of Sequence IIIF tests from the same pub:
"The Sequence IIIF engine test replaces the Sequence IIIE engine test. This test evaluates oil thickening, piston deposits, and valve train wear under high speed, high temperature conditions. Test length has been increased from 64 hours to 80 hours, and pass/fail limits have been tightened. Maximum viscosity increase has been reduced from 375% at 64 hours to 275% at 80 hours."

Ken

ex_MGB · Dec 23, 2002

In regards to 5W-20 oil being called for in the US manual vs. Japanese manual allowing 5W-30 and 5W-40, this does not mean 5W-20 is not just as good.

If Honda recommended 5W-20 in Japan and Europe, their customers would see this as an American conspiracy, sorta like genetically altered corn (which humans have been doing since crop domestication 9000 years ago via breeding).

Americans are a lot more receptive to change than the rest of the world. Given modern oil formulation technology, 5W-20 is looking to be the future. Embrace it!

and save a little gas

[ December 23, 2002, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

Giles · Dec 23, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by ex_MGB:
Snip

and save a little gas

Ford estimates an increase in gas mileage an average of .6%. That means instead of 15 MPG on my vehicle, I would get 15.09. That's something to get excited about

tenderloin · Dec 23, 2002

Ford estimates an increase in gas mileage an average of .6%. That means instead of 15 MPG on my vehicle, I would get 15.09. That's something to get excited about

Every little bit helps... Besides would Ford and especially Honda PI$$ away millions in ruined reputations for that small amount of gas savings? Honda is not even up against any CAFE numbers guys.

Admit it, The stuff works!

satterfi · Dec 23, 2002

What's a Honda Odyssey get in MPG anyway? At best 25mpg. So 5w20 is the oil of choice. Whoppie. In case anyone hasn't noticed, it's a maxipad, oopps, ahh, minivan. If you want good mpg you don't buy these.

It's like buying a Viper and using 5w20 so you get good MPG. That's STOOOOPID.

Reality check:

I gotten as high as 39mpg using M1 15w50 in my 88 Civic. That was a one time test and I'd never do it again. I drove like a wuss for 400 miles. Yuck

Currently the old gal gets 36 highway, 29 city, still using M1 15w50 after 200K.

JWRENCH · Dec 23, 2002

I'm not saying I'll never try it but I'll have to see several good analysis on the 5W-20 before I'd use air compressor oil in my car. And as far as Ford's recommedations, well, take it from someone who works for Firestone, Ford has the money to cover their butts and not take the blame if all your engines ware out too soon. They'd probably blame the oil companies and make them take the hit for it. By the way, Who here runs their tires at 26psi as ford recommends?

mkosem · Dec 23, 2002

um, we actually have to odyssey's in the family as of this week! heh, the best fuel mileage we've seen on it was on a 400mile trip averaging roughly 28mpg. The EPA numbers aren't always dead on.

--Matt

Giles · Dec 23, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by tenderloin:

quote:

Originally posted by Giles:
Ford estimates an increase in gas mileage an average of .6%. That means instead of 15 MPG on my vehicle, I would get 15.09. That's something to get excited about

Click to expand...

Every little bit helps... Besides would Ford and especially Honda PI$$ away millions in ruined reputations for that small amount of gas savings? Honda is not even up against any CAFE numbers guys.

Admit it, The stuff works!

Honda might be up against CAFE soon if their bigger cars sell well. I have a collegue that bought the Honda Pilot and it get's the same mileage as my Ford Explorer (15 city, 20 highway and Honda has a smaller engine). Also I think you are forgetting there are penalties associated with not meeting CAFE. That's what Ford is most interested in, not that I get .09 more miles per gallon. I've already said that 5w20 will make your engine last 150,000 if serviced properly, and I would venture to guess that is good enough for both Honda and Ford from a customer relations and product performance point of view. Is that good enough for you?

Also let's assume that the Motorcraft oil and oil specified by Honda are premium oils. Just wait until customers can buy Generic 5w20 oil that isn't as well formulated. There's some danger there. At least with 10w30 and 10w40 you have more margin for an oil that shears.

G-MAN · Dec 23, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by Giles:

Also let's assume that the Motorcraft oil and oil specified by Honda are premium oils. Just wait until customers can buy Generic 5w20 oil that isn't as well formulated. There's some danger there. At least with 10w30 and 10w40 you have more margin for an oil that shears.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes, but what I think is going to happen in the US is more and more you're going to see car makers require oils that meet their own specs versus a generic set of specs covered under the API "starburst" umbrella. This is already quite common in Europe. Take a look at www.shell-helix.de and you'll see several different Shell Helix oils, each one tailored to meet a specific car maker's requirements. GM has already stated that they are bringing back their 6094M spec requirement beginning with model year 04, and Ford has some pretty tough specs for any 5w20 used in its engines that it doesn't require for other grades. Hence, it's very important for anyone who's going to use this grade to make sure the bottle says it MEETS the spec, not that it's "recommended" for applications requiring the spec. This is a common and very misleading practice, one that Amsoil has down pat.

[ December 24, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: XHVI ]

Odyssey calls for 5w20 uhno

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