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My recommendation to you is one of these:
http://www.pro.innova.com/Product/Tools/
(you can get the top line model off eBay for under $400 by the way)
OBDII Scanner Thread 2013
- Thread starter JHZR2
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I've seen these before but never used one. How are they to use compared to the regular Innova scanners?
I am making an assumption that currently you have no scanner at all. Please correct it if I am wrong.
When you are talking about low prices scanners, you are going to get the so called "enhanced PID" list but it is still generic. Most of them will have the manufacturer specific DTC decoder but that just makes life little easier. One can always google the Pxxxx code to get the meaningful string.
The custom or manufacturer PID and bidirectional control means you are in a different strata of the scanner market. On top of it, if you want SRS and/or ABS you would be paying lot more.
Let us assume that you were given the Autoengunity package including the GM enhanced support free. What exactly would you do with it so that you can actually correct whatever problem that you are having? You might be able to ascertain that TCC lockup is not working. What happens then? Don't you take it to the shop? Won't they run their own diagnostics on it and charge you for their time? I really think that if you have performance or drive-ability problems with your GM automatic transmission and it bothers you enough, then you should bite the bullet and take in. But I thought you wanted a good scanner regardless. If you are shopping for the best, you will have nothing as you will keep on rejecting better solutions.
The $50 Autel that I had been pushing will not help you with the GM automatic but it will talk to all of your cars, including European ones and will give you lots of data. If you do not have a standalone CAN capable scanner today, then you owe it to yourself to get one.
I will see what I would buy if I had $400 to spend on a scanner and I will give the reasoning behind my choice(s) later.
If you are willing to spend $400, prepare to spend $450 and get the cheap one first. Once you realize the limitation of that you can buy the next one. The worst that can happen is that you will have an extra scanner which you can just keep it in one of your vehicle.
Is update/refresh rate limited by the communication protocol or by the scanner itself?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am making an assumption that currently you have no scanner at all. Please correct it if I am wrong.
When you are talking about low prices scanners, you are going to get the so called "enhanced PID" list but it is still generic. Most of them will have the manufacturer specific DTC decoder but that just makes life little easier. One can always google the Pxxxx code to get the meaningful string.
The custom or manufacturer PID and bidirectional control means you are in a different strata of the scanner market. On top of it, if you want SRS and/or ABS you would be paying lot more.
Let us assume that you were given the Autoengunity package including the GM enhanced support free. What exactly would you do with it so that you can actually correct whatever problem that you are having? You might be able to ascertain that TCC lockup is not working. What happens then? Don't you take it to the shop? Won't they run their own diagnostics on it and charge you for their time? I really think that if you have performance or drive-ability problems with your GM automatic transmission and it bothers you enough, then you should bite the bullet and take in. But I thought you wanted a good scanner regardless. If you are shopping for the best, you will have nothing as you will keep on rejecting better solutions.
The $50 Autel that I had been pushing will not help you with the GM automatic but it will talk to all of your cars, including European ones and will give you lots of data. If you do not have a standalone CAN capable scanner today, then you owe it to yourself to get one.
I will see what I would buy if I had $400 to spend on a scanner and I will give the reasoning behind my choice(s) later.
If you are willing to spend $400, prepare to spend $450 and get the cheap one first. Once you realize the limitation of that you can buy the next one. The worst that can happen is that you will have an extra scanner which you can just keep it in one of your vehicle.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Is update/refresh rate limited by the communication protocol or by the scanner itself?
Originally Posted By: Towncivilian
Originally Posted By: cchase
Is update/refresh rate limited by the communication protocol or by the scanner itself?
With regards to VCDS (VagCom), have you researched or spoken to Ross-Tech? The current VCDS is also able to run general OBDII stuff on the domestics, and I'm not sure how much live data it can access.
If you want a cheaper version of VCDS without the nice computer GUI, ECS Tuning sells a vChecker Pro under their own brand name. I have it, and it does everything VCDS does for $105. It even supports the CAN/HEX bus protocol of the newer VAG models.
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Spend the $50 bucks on the Autel (I have two of them already!) and play with it. Whatever information that your car gives out as a part of standard protocol (and there is a lot of it on late model vehicles as part CAN protocol), this little standalone device will show it and graph it.
Here is my guarantee to you as a fellow BITOGer (you know, I might take friendly jab at you now and then but I never have any malevolent intent i.e. I won't intentionally lead you astray!), Once you have that thing in your hand, first thing you will say is "why didn't I buy this before?"
Yes, you will eventually discover all of its shortcomings and then try to find a better one for $500 but the bucks to bang ratio of your initial $50 will never be approached again later. I mean even if there a lot better device at $250 and even if it had all of the functionality of this plus more (and I am sure there is one), you can afford to buy it later and still keep the $50 one.
The first time you need to look at fuel trims for drive-ability issues or I/M for upcoming state inspection, you would have recovered your $50 and more.
I have 3 scanners:
1) Harbor Freight CEN-TECH 98568. This is a cheap basic CanOBDII reader that is pretty much only useful for reading and erasing codes... but it does that very quickly... I can plug it in, read, and erase codes within about 20 seconds with this tool. This is the one to use if I already know what the problem is, I haven't had time to fix it yet, and I'm just tired of looking at the CEL.
2) BAFX Products ELM327 Bluetooth adapter (from Amazon) + Torque Pro (Android). This stuff is addictive. Fully customizable OBDLive dashboard, super fast refresh rate, pretty much everything you could want in a basic scan tool (except ABS and SRS). My only complaint is that the code reading/erasing function is pretty slow. Otherwise, this is the tool to use to watch O2 sensor functioning, fuel trim values, MAF rates, and other real time data.
3) Innova 3160B: This is a powerful scanner that does CanOBDII, OBD Live data, ABS and SRS. While it is the most expensive scanner I have, I find I only use it for ABS. Most diagnostic work can be done with the ELM327 scanner/Torque Pro.
In general, I'm glad I have all three - I use them all... But if I could only pick one it would be the bluetooth adapter + Torque Pro.
YMMV, since I've mostly used these on 2001 and newer (mostly GM) vehicles.
Vikas,
I assume you are referring to the AL319 for $50?
I was talking about Autel MS509 http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan-MS509-OBD-II-Scanner/dp/B001LHXTO0 HF Centec 98614 http://www.harborfreight.com/can-obd-ii-code-reader-eobd-scanner-98614.html is identical to it. I have both.
AL319 is the follow on model but I "thought" it had some functionality removed and some functionality added as compared to MS509. I was contemplating picking up AL319 but I had first hand experience with the other one. I knew it worked for the Maxima and when my son needed it, that is what I suggested for him to purchase.
By the way, I hope you did not pay the list price for the code reader from HF. That one is normally available at Amazon as Autel M300 under $20. I have that one too (I paid $30 then) but for some reason, it would not give me code on my Maxima even when the check engine light was on! It works fine on the Camry, so I keep it in that car.
(I remember beating on Frank aka Demarpaint until he finally broke down and purchased the Innova; ask him how relentless I was :-)
New AL series from Autel has more features. For example, AL619 looks nice but you would be paying almost four times the price of MS509. Similarly, Innova has some nice units but to start, MS509 or the BT/Torque can not be beat. The cheap Autel does almost everything that BT/Torque i.e. live data and graphs etc. If your smartphone Android, BT/Torque is better. If you are iPhone user, then the Autel would be more convenient. You can get your feet wet with BT/Torque for under $15 as long as you have an Android platform such as a smart phone or a touch pad.
Bottom line is if you are waiting for your perfect scanner to show up under the budget, you will be missing out on these gems. And that goes for *any* budget. For myself, I get tempted with $1500 scanner but after doing research I find some of the stuff that it does NOT do e.g. no memory or no battery and I just go "what the heck were they thinking????"
The moral of the story is that perfect scanner does not exist and if it does, I have no money for it. The same will be true for you too. You are engineer/scientist and are in to cars. You will not be without your own multimeter even if you had a million dollar oscilloscope at your disposal. A decent personal scanner (or two or three or four :-) is pretty much equivalent to a DMM these days.
If one is willing to look the "other way", pirated factory scanner and software for specific make manufacturer can be picked up for few hundreds or less. But once again, that should not prevent you from getting in to this game with a decent generic standalone unit.
JHZR2
Staff member
OK, though it pains me, I think Ill give the Autel 509 a try for $55ish off amazon...
Probably wont order it for a week due to other stuff going on, but now I have a path to proceed along...
Thanks!
What is the difference between the MS509 and the AL419?
http://www.amazon.com/Autel-AULAL419-Aut...rds=autel+al419
This looks to do all the same stuff and have a better display? I kind of glaze over when I get into long, bulleted lists that are trying to sell a product (redundant, long-winded).
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
I also recently bought a bluetooth (ELM327 $20) that I use with "Torque" (Android App $5) that allows me to monitor params, data log and clear codes anytime.
Go to the Autel website and download the owners manual for the scanners that you are interested in.
Compared to old MS509, the new AL419 lacks 9V battery and thus has no memory. But AL419 does have the nice one click single screen colored I/M (aka Innova colored LED, I have no idea how Autel managed to work around Innova's patent).
I just went through the pdf file and I did not see other differences between the two scanners. If the new one is not too much more money, then you should go for that one.
The trouble starts when you discover that by increasing the budget, you can get AL539 (has built-in Lithium battery and can be used as DMM and supports vehicle charging and starting system testing). But then for slightly more, you an get AL619 (does ABS/SRS for us/japanese/european) etc.
Somewhere you have to draw the line and from that perspective the $50 price point becomes the best starting point.
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
I believe you can request whatever PIDs you wish as a custom PID.
Can the Autel AL419 provide the pressure within my Jeep transmission. I have gotten codes before and could read the code but never knew what the actual pressure was. Would be handy to know whether the pressure governor or pressure sensor was bad. I have had this failure twice so far, all with OEM parts, so I am sensitive in this area.
I know the transmission guy could read the pressure.
Specific to the TQ lockup problem on a GM vehicle:
I had this problem a couple of years ago. Check engine light came on, and a trip to AZ for a quickie code read showed it was a Torque Converter solenoid problem. Since I was out of town at the time and didn't want to drive two hundred miles back home with a slipping or unlocked TQ, I took it to a shop.
Shop owner proceeds to get in the car with me with his $10K Snap On Scanner, which shows solenoid apply status, engine RPM, trans output RPM, and percentage difference, all in real time. After watching the data live, we conclude that the TQ solenoid is working correctly, and there is no slippage in the TQ at THAT moment, but there probably is when it gets hot.
The point I'm making is that anything that didn't show live data in this application (transmission, not just engine) would have been useless. Now, I must also say that the shop owner said he regretted spending $10K on that particular scanner, but still, there is a good possibility the right scanner for this job is magnitudes more than JHZ wants to spend.
The way general scanners work is that they send a command to computer to list all of the available PID supported by that engine. Engine spits out the lists and the scanner then goes through the list and asks for one at a time.
When you buy manufacturer specific support, the scanner now has more PIDs which were not part of the list reported by the scanner. The engine will respond and provide data but you pay big bucks to get the proprietry list. As to why scanner does not go through all every possible bit combination, I do not know. May be if you make too many wrong requests to engine computer, it blows up???
The only way to know if specific non-standard PID will be reported on your vehicle by your scanner is to hook them up.
Actually, there is another sneakier way to get the list reported by your vehicle but that is [censored]. Go to UltraGauge website and see if they show your specific vehicle model. It will show you the stuff that will be reported by UltraGauge for your car. The chances are, good generic scanner will give you that information too. To get the rebate from UltraGauge, then make you upload the PID list for your vehicle and then they store it on their website.
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