NYPD can shoot down a plane

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Quote:
"Do you mean to say that the NYPD has the means to take down an aircraft?" Kelly was asked by "60 Minutes" on Sunday .

"Yes," he replied, "I prefer not to get into details, but obviously, this would be in a very extreme situation."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/nypd-shoot-planes-weapon/story?id=14608555

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I have thought for many years that the replacement for the World Trade Center would be the only skyscraper in the world to have its own anti-aircraft defense system. Getting caught with our pants down in that way again would be entirely unacceptable.
 
I read this today too.

Good luck trying to hit a moving aircraft with a Barret from a chopper. He is either lying or has no clue what he's talking about. By the time NYPD would realize a plane is going to do something stupid, it would be over the city. If you could shoot it down it is still going to hit something. And if the military knew about it in advance, they would scramble an F-16 and take it out. Totally stupid concept for NYPD.
 
Funny....maybe they can take down a F15,16 or F-22 Raptor too? more likely maybe a slow moving cesna or ultra light type plane LMAO!!
 
Shortly before 9/11 the decision to shoot down a plane went from military COs to SECDEF. I dont see how NYPD would have that decision authority, but I suppose that the governor of NY or the mayor of NYC has some amount of sovereignty to allow such things?
 
It's doubtful that a 50-cal Barrett could stop a 757 on its way to fly into a skyscraper. Missiles would be the right tools for the job.
 
Quote:
I suppose that the governor of NY or the mayor of NYC has some amount of sovereignty to allow such things?

I theory, the governor is in charge of the National Air Guard in his state, but I doubt he would order the shoot down of a civilian aircraft without authorization from the President. Under such circumstances, the President would simply nationalize the NG and take over anyway.

The idea that a city mayor can shoot down an aircraft is horrifying.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
I suppose that the governor of NY or the mayor of NYC has some amount of sovereignty to allow such things?

I theory, the governor is in charge of the National Air Guard in his state, but I doubt he would order the shoot down of a civilian aircraft without authorization from the President. Under such circumstances, the President would simply nationalize the NG and take over anyway.

The idea that a city mayor can shoot down an aircraft is horrifying.


I thought you were for decisions to be made more at the local level?
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
I suppose that the governor of NY or the mayor of NYC has some amount of sovereignty to allow such things?

I theory, the governor is in charge of the National Air Guard in his state, but I doubt he would order the shoot down of a civilian aircraft without authorization from the President. Under such circumstances, the President would simply nationalize the NG and take over anyway.

The idea that a city mayor can shoot down an aircraft is horrifying.


SECDEF has the authority as the lowest level decision authority in the federal government. Its not just the president apparently.

But again, prior to a few weeks before 9/11, military COs had the authority apparently even over US airspace, and Id say they are lower than a mayor or governor.

So there may be more than meets the eye here. Recommend you research.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
I suppose that the governor of NY or the mayor of NYC has some amount of sovereignty to allow such things?

I theory, the governor is in charge of the National Air Guard in his state, but I doubt he would order the shoot down of a civilian aircraft without authorization from the President. Under such circumstances, the President would simply nationalize the NG and take over anyway.

The idea that a city mayor can shoot down an aircraft is horrifying.


I hope you are right.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

SECDEF has the authority as the lowest level decision authority in the federal government. Its not just the president apparently.

But again, prior to a few weeks before 9/11, military COs had the authority apparently even over US airspace, and Id say they are lower than a mayor or governor.

So there may be more than meets the eye here. Recommend you research.

Mayors and governors have nothing to do with the military chain of command, so CO's are not "lower". Short of a truly short term crisis, I highly doubt that the SECDEF would make that call without the President's OK.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

I thought you were for decisions to be made more at the local level?
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How many mayors are fully familiar with military tactics and standing orders for such a thing? This is beyond their purview per the Constitution.

Imagine if they shot down a foreign aircraft?
 
But NYPD is under the mayor's control. Do they now have two chains of command?

This is really scary stuff and I wonder about the constitutionality of it.

I knew NY had a parallel intelligence gathering operations but that could SOMEHOW be justified to fall under NYPD. Ordering to shoot down planes does not seem like something that a city should be able to do.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

SECDEF has the authority as the lowest level decision authority in the federal government. Its not just the president apparently.

But again, prior to a few weeks before 9/11, military COs had the authority apparently even over US airspace, and Id say they are lower than a mayor or governor.

So there may be more than meets the eye here. Recommend you research.

Mayors and governors have nothing to do with the military chain of command, so CO's are not "lower". Short of a truly short term crisis, I highly doubt that the SECDEF would make that call without the President's OK.


If a CO is an O-6, it is the equivalent of a GS15 federal employee. This is a different type of position than a congressionally approved or voter-selected position. That was my point. Of course a military Chain of Command is different, but the position equivalence exists.

Now of course one would assume that anyone with decision authority would work through their CoC, but the reality is that the decision lies where the decision lies. And the person who pushes the button or pulls the trigger listens to their CO, their mayor, their whomever. So the possibility is there.
 
Quote:
If a CO is an O-6, it is the equivalent of a GS15 federal employee. This is a different type of position than a congressionally approved or voter-selected position. That was my point. Of course a military Chain of Command is different, but the position equivalence exists.

Does the GS15 have the ability to command military personnel? If not, then any "equivalency" is meaningless.
 
In what respect? There are circumstances where an O6 (or an officer of some other rank) is subservient to the civillian equivalent in terms of authority within an office, command, etc. These things do seem to stagger to some extent. Of course Im not talking about combat outfits or formations of military personnel. So you have to be talking apples to apples. The decision authority here is staggered, and it's not clear who outweighs whom.

And youre missing my point. An O-6, who could be a command's CO is NOT presidentially assigned, is not congressionally approved, and is not voted into office.

Commanding military personnel is a very important thing, but it is not the point.

After all, who is the commander in chief, an O6, O7-9 or a civilian? Isnt there a difference in terms of how each of those positions gets chosen and its importance? I work with LOTS of O-6 people, and only a few O-7 or O-8. Im not trying to belittle any O-6 in any way, and have the highest level of respect for them.

But again, it appears that the AUTHORITY was REMOVED from the level of a field rank (e.g. Colonel or Capitain) and set into executive schedule-level personnel. Again, a governor for example is the executive of the state. A mayor of a major city is the chief executive of that city. A military base or functional unit may be hosted by a state or city (and has a senior civilian executive for the site). It doesnt make the CO subservient, and that was never said. It was all about where the level of authority lies, and under what situations and circumstances who trumps whom.

Obviously a governor can mobilize a state militia/guard. Can that local installation's O-6 do that? See, its not clear between military and civil rankings, but there is an authority difference.

The SECDEF's military equivalent is The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not an O-6, military rank or not. So the decision authority was moved up in level regardless. That was my point.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I don't see NYPD having the budget to buy an F16 and patrol the sky with donuts and coffee.


I don't know, at 3 bucks an hour to park at a meter, $110 fine for double parking and $500 if they find a mouse dropping in the basement of your restaurant, NYC could fund just about anything.

The coffee and donuts would be on the cuff of course.
 
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