Not even a coolant temp gauge

[Bladecutter]

Temp gauges in most cars currently sold don't actually show you how hot the coolant really is, anyway. They only show you a "range" of temperatures depending on the programming in the ECU.

If you watch them carefully, you will see that once the car is up to temperature, they stay perfectly still, showing the same temp as if you just got up to operating temp, or your cooling fans keep cycling on and off while in bumper to bumper traffic.

The reason why these gauges don't do anything is because when you have a vehicle where the gauge fluctuates with temperature changes, you then get a deluge of customer complaints about their car running hotter than normal, yet the gauge is still perfectly in the normal range.

I see those questions on motorcycle forums all the time.

So, you either make the gauge "dumb", and cause the 1% of the driving population who actually wants real information to be unhappy, or you make the gauge give real info all the time, and cause the 99% of the regular drivers to call in with complaints all the time, trying to get their car fixed under warranty for a normal behavior.

Honestly, I agree with the car manufacturers with completely removing the gauge on cars not going to be owned by driving enthusiasts. Really, a typical Subaru Owner isn't going to care about coolant temp fluctuations in 99% of owners.

BC.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

Honestly, I agree with the car manufacturers with completely removing the gauge on cars not going to be owned by driving enthusiasts. Really, a typical Subaru Owner isn't going to care about coolant temp fluctuations in 99% of owners.

On top of that, especially in the US, majority of cars sold are equipped with auto trans. If one was worried about over-revving a cold engine, it would probably be easy enough for a manufacturer to modify the trans programming so that when engine was cold, it would shift into next gear sooner to avoid such high harmful RPMs.

At least that's what I use my coolant gauge for in my manual car. I try to take it easy and not rev much past 3K rpm until the engine's warmed up... But in all honestly, I don't exactly know what rpm level would be considered harmful when the engine is cold. Supposedly, some newer BMWs show the current safe RPM range right on the tacho. The range increases as the engine warms up. That is a defacto coolant temp gauge in these cars. Alas, if the car overheats, you still have to wait for a dummy light to let you know. And by that time, you'll be thrown into limp mode anyway...

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Temp gauges in most cars currently sold don't actually show you how hot the coolant really is, anyway. They only show you a "range" of temperatures depending on the programming in the ECU.

That really isn't true in most vehicles with analogue gauges, those generally have a gauge sending unit that operates independently from ECM...

I know exactly where the gauges in my cars run and a few evenings ago I was driving my '07 Grand Marquis in a cold rain, the temp gauge read approx a needle width lower than it's normal indicated temp... The rain had stopped on return trip and the gauge was back to it's normal reading, was also back to it's normal indication yesterday when we drove the car...

 

[Jarlaxle]

My Caddy has two gauges: speed and fuel. That's it. Owned several cars that way...1982 Marquis wagon comes to mind. My Magnum had a temp gauge, but it was pretty much bogus (rose to the centre & stayed there). My Jeep has real gauges...my F350 has them (everything but a tach), but the oil pressure gauge, like most Fords from the mid-70's, is an idiot gauge. It has two readings: zero and half.

 

[Whimsey]

While my 1996 Contour does not have a tach it does have a functioning temp gauge. In bumper to bumper traffic the gauge will get up to near the top of the normal zone and then the cooling fan comes on and the temp drops back down. It will repeat itself if still in bumper to bumper traffic. Sadly there are no numbers on the gauge , but it's real, unlike my 2002 F-150's.

Whimsey

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Some mfgs allow you to access various parameters such as coolant/oil/trans temp and display them through OBC, even though there is no dedicated analog gauge for it. I'd expect this to become more common as your traditional analog instrument cluster turns into a one big fancy LCD screen.

Funny to see the "3 2 L!"

I wonder if that will be in the new Accord...

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: Whimsey
In bumper to bumper traffic the gauge will get up to near the top of the normal zone and then the cooling fan comes on and the temp drops back down. It will repeat itself if still in bumper to bumper traffic.


I've had cars with that kind of gauge too; its neat to watch the temps build slowly as you're stuck in traffic and then they go way down when you get on the highway and the rush of air cools things quick. The volt meter too; click on the rear defrost or the headlights and watch the needle go down a notch or two. The problem was, people tended to run right into the dealer demanding warranty work every time they saw a gauge flutter, so the choice was to either dumb down the gauge entirely (make it point right to the middle, all the time) or eliminate it entirely. Unfortunately.

 

[robertcope]

Many cars that do have coolant, oil pressure, etc gauges are just presenting you fancy idiot lights. For example, my Miata has an oil pressure gauge, but it doesn't actually do anything but a binary operation. The coolant gauge is not exactly binary, but it isn't a real gauge, either.

robert

 

[sciphi]

The digital part of the Cruze's instrument cluster offers a real coolant temperature readout and voltage display. The dummy gauge will stay the same while the coolant swings through a roughly 40*F range from 180*F-220*F. The dummy gauge will back down a little if the coolant drops below 180*F, such as when running the heater full-blast while sitting at a long stoplight.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
The dummy gauge will stay the same while the coolant swings through a roughly 40*F range from 180*F-220*F.

Mine's even worse. It'll stay at 12 o'clock from about 167F to about 240F. That's a 73 degree dead zone.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: sciphi
The dummy gauge will stay the same while the coolant swings through a roughly 40*F range from 180*F-220*F.

Mine's even worse. It'll stay at 12 o'clock from about 167F to about 240F. That's a 73 degree dead zone.


Ouch!

 

[abycat]

My 2011 versa has 3 guages tach speed and fuel. it has a blue cold water temp light and a hot red one which i have never seen. the blue one turns on when you start it cold and a few minutes it goes off after driving a bit. I like the idea. I dont really need to know what the temp is as long as its not too hot or cold.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Mine's even worse. It'll stay at 12 o'clock from about 167F to about 240F. That's a 73 degree dead zone.


Ouch!

This helpful diagram should have been included in the owner's manual (temps in Celsius):

 

[weebl]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Temp gauges in most cars currently sold don't actually show you how hot the coolant really is, anyway. They only show you a "range" of temperatures depending on the programming in the ECU.

If you watch them carefully, you will see that once the car is up to temperature, they stay perfectly still, showing the same temp as if you just got up to operating temp, or your cooling fans keep cycling on and off while in bumper to bumper traffic.

The reason why these gauges don't do anything is because when you have a vehicle where the gauge fluctuates with temperature changes, you then get a deluge of customer complaints about their car running hotter than normal, yet the gauge is still perfectly in the normal range.

I see those questions on motorcycle forums all the time.

So, you either make the gauge "dumb", and cause the 1% of the driving population who actually wants real information to be unhappy, or you make the gauge give real info all the time, and cause the 99% of the regular drivers to call in with complaints all the time, trying to get their car fixed under warranty for a normal behavior.

Honestly, I agree with the car manufacturers with completely removing the gauge on cars not going to be owned by driving enthusiasts. Really, a typical Subaru Owner isn't going to care about coolant temp fluctuations in 99% of owners.

BC.


I've noticed that about the temperature gauge on my current Toyota. Never really moves after it shows operating temperature. I had an '88 Chevy Sprint when I was in my teens, and I remember quite distinctly, the needle did move. I could reliably predict when the electric cooling fan came on based on the needle position, and watch the gauge and reliably predict when it would shut off.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I now know why Chrysler recalibrated the gauges on the LX cars.

The early models were equipped with very accurate gauges that showed everything to the drivers. They got so many complaints from people who did not understand the readings that they recalibrated the gauges to damp the readings.

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Nothing new. Frinds dad had a 62 Impala with a 409 in it. It had a Cold and hot light. Nothing else.
Our 1960 Pontiac Star Chief had this also. What's old is new again, I guess......

 

[rslifkin]

I very much appreciate the real gauges in the Jeep. The voltmeter and coolant temp both show real data (coolant temp matches dead on to what an OBDII scanner shows). The oil pressure is a real gauge, but the senders are always horribly inaccurate, even when new. Mine shows 30psi at hot idle, and goes up to 42psi max (occasionally hits 45). The engine really pushes about 60psi at high rpms according to a mechanical gauge.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Mine's even worse. It'll stay at 12 o'clock from about 167F to about 240F. That's a 73 degree dead zone.


Ouch!

This helpful diagram should have been included in the owner's manual (temps in Celsius):

Ok, I have to ask.. since the temp gauge in family member's vehicle is at 60 degrees on that vehicle, the Envoy. That means that the temperature IS out of range for normal, and the engine is in fact too cool? Seeking to confirm.

Unless 03 Envoy has "real temperature gauge." It has been suggested its OP light is an "idiot light with a gauge." Wondering if temperature gauge is the same.

This topic has been brought up, yes, but now we are discussing the accuracy of the temperature displayed. I can tell you that one time she left it in "D" and not "OD" on the I95 South in South Carolina, and the RPMs were up to ~3500RPM or so and the temp gauge notched up towards center.. she thought there was a problem. She then realized it "Wasnt in overdrive at 75MPH." So.. the gauge does move.. except lately.. when it gets to 1/3 the way up and stays there. Calibrated for center, so that indicates genuine too cool condition, yes?

Two weeks until the Stat job. All codes cleared.

 

[lexus114]

So they brought back the ole Blue cold lights huh? I havent seen one of those since my buddies dad`s old 67 Ford station wagon.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: jim302
However, there's still no good excuse for not having a REAL temperature gauge, oil pressure gauge, etc. Putting a fuel economy gauge in place of these is completely ridiculous. Those who don't care will just ignore the other gauges anyways.


There IS a logical reason for it. As someone earlier posted, you have people who will carry the car to the dealership when they see the temperature gauge fluctuating so much during normal operation, especially in traffic and in vehicles with electric fans. The range of "normal" temperatures can be quite dramatic, and is worrisome for those not accustomed to seeing it.

There's really little reason FOR these gauges anymore, in my opinion. An enthusiast wants to see them, sure, but we need to be real here...at least half of the population doesn't look at them to begin with, and of the half that does, probably 75% of THOSE would likely mis-interpret the movements of a "real" gauge anyway. That results in a lot of "comebacks" and additional costs to the manufacturers in diagnosing what is more than likely a non-issue.