Noob Question About Penzoil

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12glocks

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Hey Guys:

I've been lurking here for a while and trying to learn. I've been a 3K OCI guy for years but have went 4K on synthetics (I've always called it cheap insurance). That will probably change as I just got two test kits from Blackstone. I will probably run both My Titan and my wives Forester out to 5K and then do a UOA to see where I'm at. Traditionally, I have used Castrol GTX for the 1st 10K (or more) on 3K OCI's then switched to Mobil 1. The Subaru dealer is who recomended the Castrol BTW. I've traditionally purchased oil at Sam's Club but after lurking here I think I am going to watch for sales on other products.

Anyway, in days gone by people told me they would not use Penzoil "on a bicycle" becasue it has a wax base, paraffin as I recall. I was told this would sludge up ones engine. Is there any validity to this?

PP which is fully synthetic (I believe) seems to be well respected here. Synthetics are appealing to me since I can extend the OCI's some. I also hope to gain just a little fuel mileage in my Titan. Would anybody have any reservations about interchanging PP and Mobil 1 in my vehicles?

Thanks in advance.
 
Pennzoil is one of the best oils on the market. Do a search in the UOA forum and you'll see some great results. Their yellow bottle 5W-20 is especially good.
 
Pennzoil turns out some of the best UOA's, and is recommended by some the the most respected experts on this site.

PP is recommended by the same experts and is very well respected as well. My own opinion is that it would be at least as good as M1, but is significantly better value.

There are other really good dino oils (that also offer good value per $)such as havoline.

Castol GTX is thought to be a decent dino oil but is perhaps priced a little higher than some.
 
12glocks, "paraffin" is a type of molecule, not a specific substance. And, yes there are paraffin waxes. They do not intentionally form the basis for motor oils, though. The problem is that Pennsylvania grade crude oil, which was traditionally the better grade up into the '60s, also contained a higher than typical wax content. (Inferior crudes contained a stronger asphaltic content - not exactly something desirable in your engine, either...) Refiners used solvent-chilled techniques to remove most of the wax content, but some inevitably remained behind. These solvent refined base oils were labled Group I. The real problem with residual wax content in motor oil is that it has a higher freeze point than the paraffin oil molecules - tough stuff to pump in cold temps. Since the mid-70s, there's been a slow but steady shift to a refining technique known as "hydro-isomerization". Feed waxy and/or nastier asphaltic laced crude into a pressure vessel laced with catalysts, heat it to heckish temperatures at ungoshly pressures and let the whole batch cook awhile and wonderful things happen. Specifically, the unwanted hydrocarbons such as waxes and tars are transformed to desirable lube molecules. Thus was born Group II base oils. Further baking yields Group III base oils - even purer. In other words, if you have the time and energy (pun intended) you can cook up a customized, very high qualtiy base oil regardless what you start with. Just about any name brand conventional oil available in the U.S. currently is at least Group II based, and some are a combination of Group II/Group II+ (not quite Group III) or Group II/Group III - in all cases with a blender proprietary mix of additives for fuel economy, anti-oxidation properties, and detergents/dispersants to neutralize acids and insolubles over the course of an oil change interval. I agree with your Pennzoil detractors on one point, though. I wouldn't use the stuff on a bicycle, either. It's too good for that purpose.
 
quote:
Originally posted by 12glocks:
Hey Guys:


Anyway, in days gone by people told me they would not use Penzoil "on a bicycle" becasue it has a wax base, paraffin as I recall. I was told this would sludge up ones engine. Is there any validity to this?
Click to expand...
All conventional basestocks are "parafinnic". Check the MSDS.

This Pennzoil urban legend has gone on far too long.
 
Why are you going to do 4,000 mile oil change intervals in the Forester, ESPECIALLY with synthetic oil? The manual for my wife's 2003 Forester recommends 7,500 mile oil change intervals, and that's with dino oil. I'm on my second 10,000 mile oil change interval run on her Forester, using Mobil 1 EP and a NAPA Gold oil filter.
 
GLAD to hear THAT!

Just copped 14 bottles of 5W20 SM Yellow!
cheers.gif
 
A little Pennzoil 5W20 history lesson for you.

Back when Pennzoil was just Pennzoil and Conoco was just Conoco and they both were 50/50 owners in the Excel Paralubes Refinery, it was Pennzoil that tested 5W20 oils with Ford Motor Company. I was there when they tore down the two Lincoln Town Cars for their final test. One had 150,000 on it and the other 225,000. Not long after the test Ford started to spec 5W20 for their cars.

Pennzoil made the oil because at the time Pennzoil had a minuature refinery in The Woodlands, TX that could produce very small batches of oil for testing. When Shell bought Pennzoil one of the first things they sold was that test refinery. I did not understand why they did that until I found out that Shell has the same thing at their Westhollow research facility in southwest Houston.

I was impressed with the 5W20 then and I'm still impressed with it. The Yellow bottle product is a very good 5W20.
 
Pennzoil is a good oil. I used it years ago, and would have kept using it but tried different brands. BITOG posts got me to try Havoline. That's the oil I use now, but I probably would use Pennzoil again someday after I get rid of this car in a couple years.
 
I tried a simple experiment anybody can repeat. I put a small paraffin candle in some of the Pennzoil 5W-30 I use. I heated it gently using a shop light until there was nothing left of the candle except the wick. I then put it in the freezer. An hour later, I had some very thick oil, but free from wax particles.

There is an entire class of chemicals called paraffins that vary only by the number of carbons in the chain. It starts with methane and goes up to polyethylene. The name comes from their stability. They will not react with much of anything except in the high temperature of a flame. Branched ones, such as iso octane, are a little more reactive than straight ones such as normal octane. They are freely soluble in each other, and difficult to separate except by distillation.

Another thing to try would be to take a candle and rub it on your valve cover at operating temperature. It will melt. Now, smear some sludge on the valve cover. It won't melt. Sludge is not wax precipitating out of oil.
 
Ray H,

Good post!

It's a shame this urban legend about a quality product won't die. I use the yellow bottle 5W20 in my Ford and have a few cases of $2/qt (love those rebates
grin.gif
) PP 5W20 ready to go after the break-in period.
 
In all seriousness all oil back then caused lots of sludge. I asked a question about when oil became good, and it was s mixed response, but I think API service SJ is when it became good and any sludge formation will be minimal. With the new SM oils sludge is non existent unless there are engine design flaws or low sump levels.
 
On the subject of sludge, what is interesting is that for the new ILSAC GF-5 specs, an emphasis will be on separating sludge into two types, cold temp sludge & hot temp sludge.

Separate tests will be conducted for the oil's resistance to these conditions.

Higher engine temps for cleaner emissions are creating hot spots in engines that the new oils, year 2010 plus, will have to stand up to.
 
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