Based on hours of research it seems that some oils generally produce louder valvetrain (M1), whereas other like Rotella T6 tend to have a smoothening effect on nvh. Does noise/vibration/harshness (nvh) have any correlation at all with wear?
Noiser/quieter with certain oils mean anything?
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That is a good question! The Mobil Clean 5000 is quieter in my VQ40 than the PYB and the PP was. It doesn't matter in our Honda, it's always quiet.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Based on hours of research it seems that some oils generally produce louder valvetrain (M1), whereas other like Rotella T6 tend to have a smoothening effect on nvh. Does noise/vibration/harshness (nvh) have any correlation at all with wear?
As Click and Clack always say "No noise is a good noise". However simple perceived noise from one oil to the next - in most cases it has nothing to do with wear. IMHO - perceived noise, when in semi-cold ambient temps using good cold temp flow oils like M1, is due to the lower viscosity at those temps - the higher viscosity simply dampens the sounds more.
People will easily say that perceived noise = wear. Ask them to prove it.
Now real clackity klack nasty start noise from no oil flow to the bottom end - well that's another story.
Also, not to get started on cold piston slap.
You see - there is NVH and then there is NVH!
Based on hours of research it seems that some oils generally produce louder valvetrain (M1), whereas other like Rotella T6 tend to have a smoothening effect on nvh. Does noise/vibration/harshness (nvh) have any correlation at all with wear?
As Click and Clack always say "No noise is a good noise". However simple perceived noise from one oil to the next - in most cases it has nothing to do with wear. IMHO - perceived noise, when in semi-cold ambient temps using good cold temp flow oils like M1, is due to the lower viscosity at those temps - the higher viscosity simply dampens the sounds more.
People will easily say that perceived noise = wear. Ask them to prove it.
Now real clackity klack nasty start noise from no oil flow to the bottom end - well that's another story.
Also, not to get started on cold piston slap.
You see - there is NVH and then there is NVH!
ON a Spark ignition, engine noise = wear. When you get resonant odd harmonics in an even harmonic motion environ - somthing is not moving properly. Parts might "hammer away" and last 300K miles they might break tomorrow. I HATE odd engine noise - as its usually associated with poor lubrication, reduced torque and or a part about to expire then next time I pull out to pass that 60 y.o. in a corolla ...
In regard to noise, my 1995 V6 3100 runs smooth, but the last year I’ve noticed that I can feel a constant vibration in the steering wheel and ever so slightly I can hear the engine idle more whereas before I could not. I took it to my mechanic and he said it’s engine vibration due to being in contact with the frame of the car in some way. Does this make sense to any of you?
Originally Posted By: Mark72
In regard to noise, my 1995 V6 3100 runs smooth, but the last year I’ve noticed that I can feel a constant vibration in the steering wheel and ever so slightly I can hear the engine idle more whereas before I could not. I took it to my mechanic and he said it’s engine vibration due to being in contact with the frame of the car in some way. Does this make sense to any of you?
You may have a bad motor mount.
In regard to noise, my 1995 V6 3100 runs smooth, but the last year I’ve noticed that I can feel a constant vibration in the steering wheel and ever so slightly I can hear the engine idle more whereas before I could not. I took it to my mechanic and he said it’s engine vibration due to being in contact with the frame of the car in some way. Does this make sense to any of you?
You may have a bad motor mount.
Originally Posted By: tig1
You may have a bad motor mount.
That was my impression as well. Could also be a hardened bushing in a dogbone if there is one. If you yank the throttle cable with the hood open, does the engine rock in place quite a bit? If so, it could be a bad or failing mount.
You may have a bad motor mount.
That was my impression as well. Could also be a hardened bushing in a dogbone if there is one. If you yank the throttle cable with the hood open, does the engine rock in place quite a bit? If so, it could be a bad or failing mount.
Throttle cable - whats that?
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Mark72
In regard to noise, my 1995 V6 3100 runs smooth, but the last year I’ve noticed that I can feel a constant vibration in the steering wheel and ever so slightly I can hear the engine idle more whereas before I could not. I took it to my mechanic and he said it’s engine vibration due to being in contact with the frame of the car in some way. Does this make sense to any of you?
You may have a bad motor mount.
I wondered the same thing. My mech said it's nothing to worry about right now, but I keep up on maintanece. Is it a cheap fix to get a new motormount?
Originally Posted By: Mark72
In regard to noise, my 1995 V6 3100 runs smooth, but the last year I’ve noticed that I can feel a constant vibration in the steering wheel and ever so slightly I can hear the engine idle more whereas before I could not. I took it to my mechanic and he said it’s engine vibration due to being in contact with the frame of the car in some way. Does this make sense to any of you?
You may have a bad motor mount.
I wondered the same thing. My mech said it's nothing to worry about right now, but I keep up on maintanece. Is it a cheap fix to get a new motormount?
I have noticed that the noise in my engine will come and go from one day to the next: All on the same oil change. I think it might be something other than the oil that causes the problem. It could even be barometric pressure differences in my head and ear canal that causes the change in sound.
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I feel that noise absolutely has to do with wear. It you can hear/feel two metal objects hitting against each other,wouldn`t that mean something isn`t getting properly cushioned via lubrication?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I feel that noise absolutely has to do with wear.
I'm glad you distinguish between "feeling" something is a certain way versus "knowing" it or "having evidence to suggest" it may be true.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
It you can hear/feel two metal objects hitting against each other,wouldn`t that mean something isn`t getting properly cushioned via lubrication?
The great thing is, those two metal objects probably never actually touch each other, whether the sound is loud or soft. Soft might just be that there's less viscous or dense material between the parts to absorb the sound energy. UOAs of thin oils, thick oils, noisy ones and quiet ones seem to indicate little differentiation either way. That leads me to believe that either there is little or no difference, the noise issue is psychological, or, as Loobed mentioned, a result of air pressure variations. There are so many factors we don't know about or understand, why fixate on this one?
I feel that noise absolutely has to do with wear.
I'm glad you distinguish between "feeling" something is a certain way versus "knowing" it or "having evidence to suggest" it may be true.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
It you can hear/feel two metal objects hitting against each other,wouldn`t that mean something isn`t getting properly cushioned via lubrication?
The great thing is, those two metal objects probably never actually touch each other, whether the sound is loud or soft. Soft might just be that there's less viscous or dense material between the parts to absorb the sound energy. UOAs of thin oils, thick oils, noisy ones and quiet ones seem to indicate little differentiation either way. That leads me to believe that either there is little or no difference, the noise issue is psychological, or, as Loobed mentioned, a result of air pressure variations. There are so many factors we don't know about or understand, why fixate on this one?
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Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
I'm glad you distinguish between "feeling" something is a certain way versus "knowing" it or "having evidence to suggest" it may be true.
Absolutely. It`s just my opinion. I have no idea if quieter means better lubrication,but like I said,I "feel" that it does as far as my limited knowledge of lubrication and internal combustion engines,but without a completely teardown abd comparing it to a more quiet running engine,all is complete speculation.
I'm glad you distinguish between "feeling" something is a certain way versus "knowing" it or "having evidence to suggest" it may be true.
Absolutely. It`s just my opinion. I have no idea if quieter means better lubrication,but like I said,I "feel" that it does as far as my limited knowledge of lubrication and internal combustion engines,but without a completely teardown abd comparing it to a more quiet running engine,all is complete speculation.
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