So I have a few Battery Minder chargers and they do desulfation all the time. I wonder if that is better or not as good as the NOCO chargers with a "Repair" mode.
Noco Genius 5 battery charger review
- Thread starter wdn
- Start date
True the Cteks dont tell you much - I have 2 now including the same 25 you do.
What the 25 DOES have that few others do is temperature sender IN the positive clamp vs ambient temp at the unit.
JHZR2
Staff member
Right. That is the correct way to do it.
I wonder how the Genius5 or Genius10 compares to the Clore PL2320
20/10/2 Amp 6/12V Intelligent Battery Charger / Maintainer - Clore Automotive
Get versatility, reliability and precision with the 20/10/2 Amp 6/12V Intelligent Battery Charger and Maintainer from Clore Automotive. 20/10/2A 6/12V Intelligent Battery Charger/Maintainercloreautomotive.com
i have this and love it.
I hear very good things about this unit, but at 20 amps it should have a temp probe in the clamp - and its quite large.
JHZR2
Staff member
I have the Clore as well as the Ctek 25A unit. It’s really no larger, and in some ways is more convenient. The fact that I can get a voltage reading is a major plus. But I agree it should have a temperature sensor in the clamp.
I only use the big ctek on banks vs single batteries.
In terms of size I was really comparing it to my throw down of choice- the optimate 6.
I grab my optimate 6's pretty much every time.
I cant get an absolute voltage reading off a 6, but I can get better idea of whats going on and the final state of charge with it vs the CTEKS.
The 6 will charge everything from a 4AH tiny battery to a 240AH bank in a small form factor.
I will likely buy the clore unit just to have one.
JHZR2
Staff member
I own an optimate 6 as well. I’ve found it to be harder to use, less intuitive. The range of voltages as combinations of colors of leds is ok, but if you don’t have a manual,
It’s easy to forget.
Im not really sure how/why you say the 6 will do something tiny to something huge, but don’t give the others the same credit. Charge current is based upon impedance and voltage. Ohms law isn’t rocket science. The battery isn’t going to accept more than it can take. And while the optimate isn’t a huge powerhouse, it doesn’t offer the ability to arbitrarily current limit should you desire.
I routinely charge single batteries with the 25A ctek. I’m generally an advocate of low and slow, but sometimes you need to get more current in there. 25A at 14V isn’t any different than what an alternator will put out. Put a clamp on dc ammeter on the leads and you’ll see the current very rapidly decay from 25A to something much lower.
A multimeter is a necessity for any charging you’re doing. But in a pinch, the clore, having a voltage meter, is infinitely more useful and tells you more in the situation that you don’t have one. It’s true that at least the optimate gives you a more graduated scale though.
Harder to use in what way?
It is not "I" making the AH range claim.
In terms of optimate 6's charge range simply compare the rated AH charge range in terms of how small a battery it's rated to charge and how large and look at the spread. It charges a wider range of batteries than the other throwdowns I have including the 2 CTEKS. (7002 and 2500)
Note the AH range on the 2500 from the ctek website
| Battery capacity | 50-500Ah |
The smaller 7002 range
| Battery capacity | 14-225Ah |
Still to big for my smallest genset battery and not quite big enough for my 240 AH RV bank.
Now look at the optimate 6
IDEAL FOR : STD, AGM & GEL 12V batteries from 3 – 240Ah.
This one charger covers my smallest batteries as well as a large 240 AH bank.
The lower end is usually dictated by the lowest continuous amount the unit can put out, and wheather or not the output can be pulsed. Optimate 6 can go down to a pulsed 1/2 amp.
I have an use a multimeter all the time. After a certain amount of testing I become comfortable with what a given charger tells me on a given battery and no longer feel I need to use it.
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Both of my CTEKS also have a minimum charge voltage of 2.0V whereas the 6's is .5 Volt.
So if I really run it down the optimate has a better chance of bringing it back without a DC-DC jump, or dragging out an old analog unit to get it going.
This actually helped me earlier this year when we found out the last guy to shut the work gensets off last year cut the fuel vs using a switch, but left the switch on and didnt realize it drove a small light to light the control panel.
So if I really run it down the optimate has a better chance of bringing it back without a DC-DC jump, or dragging out an old analog unit to get it going.
This actually helped me earlier this year when we found out the last guy to shut the work gensets off last year cut the fuel vs using a switch, but left the switch on and didnt realize it drove a small light to light the control panel.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Has anyone ever brought back a battery from 2VDC? wouldn't a voltage that low indicate shorted cell(s)
Only when it was due to headlights left on and it was caught and charged right away. Still, a battery that's been run down that far is damaged goods and will have a shortened lifespan.
JHZR2
Staff member
Easier/harder to use because I’m not as big a fan of the multi-LED SOC indicator versus an actual readout. For battery charging, voltage means something to me. So I typically want a multimeter too, but in many cases, having a readout like the Clore one is useful. Color codes LEDs, not so much.
Again, I own an optimate 6. Setting and forgetting as a maintenance charger, fine, but setting anything else is more of a pain. Even if that’s just personal preference, I’m not really sure what your intent is splitting hairs on here with me.
Too much embedded function without enough real detail (too much in this:
or, for a design with less data that you do nothing on, something as simple and full of detail as this:
I think you don’t quite understand Ohm’s law and what/how this all works. Many of these chargers allow you to force a charge to a low voltage. The fact that one vendor says it’s max or min is x or y Ah, isn’t really very useful. You could charge a 240Ah battery with a 6A charger, but why? You would need many days to do it. Assuming the battery was in any way depleted, it would take many hours to do the bulk charge, and then the rest is all logarithmic and in the end will take a very long time regardless. Some chargers allow the bulk charge timeframe to stay on for longer. That has pros and cons, some related to safety (the longer you feed a high impedance fault, the hotter things will get and the greater chance of a fire or battery thermal runaway). Will it work? Yes, so will a 1A charger if you work it long enough. So what?
There can be something to be said about using too large a charger on a small battery, because switching noise and harmonics can cause heating in the battery. These things seem to be increased at very low load percentages, in some designs, and so some consideration maybe worthy. Full rate of charge would not encounter those issues. But I don’t see folks using fancy electronics sensing and sampling systems to get to the bottom of that.
The fact that a charger will charge at 0.4 or 2 v doesn’t matter much to me. There are other ways to get some charge into batteries, and if one is so low/dead, I’d have other concerns with it. And if it is so dead that it’s showing zero, you still have hours ahead of you with a 6A charger, to get it anywhere near useful voltage level to operate it. So...??? The Genius will allow a force mode for batteries with
So again, I own a lot of cars, and I own a lot of different chargers for different reasons. For automotive use, which is very inexact (for reasons I gave in the float explanation in the 1A NOCO review), any and all are good enough. I have my favorites and those that Indont care for a ton. The optimate is on the lower end of the list. If it’s favored to you and for your uses, great, fine, no worries.
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Im quite familiar with Ohms law and charging.
You could charge a 240Ah battery with a 6A charger, but why? You would need many days to do it. Assuming the battery was in any way depleted, it would take many hours to do the bulk charge, and then the rest is all logarithmic and in the end will take a very long time regardless. Some chargers allow the bulk charge timeframe to stay on for longer. That has pros and cons, some related to safety (the longer you feed a high impedance fault, the hotter things will get and the greater chance of a fire or battery thermal runaway). Will it work? Yes, so will a 1A charger if you work it long enough. So what?
Why? - Because at the end of a trip I dont need to fast charge a bank but to charge it to full AND maintain it there without the charger shutting off an indicating a fault because it couldn't reach 14.4 or 7 in its internal timeframe. (usually 24 hours) I have to charge and maintain the start and house bank.
The 6 gives me the ability to not only fully charge the bank - but maintain it without going into fault.
Ill use the ctek 2500 if I need to fast charge it, or really the onboard genset with 100 Amp charger.
The minder doesn't tell you what the final state of charge is in terms of voltage and the optimates combo of 5 lights provides both more and better detail than the 4 on the minder. No doubt the larger clore unit give more and better info.
Agreed - Everyone cares about different things, but in comparing chargers, a wider range of AH coverage is usually more useful than narrower, and wider range of start voltage usually more desirable than than narrower range.
Noco doenst match optimate in covered AH range either, but seems to make a nice charger otherwise.
Not splitting hairs to me - just a couple of guys talking about the relative merits of various chargers.Im always eager to learn about experience with any given brand and its details. What takes 1000 words in a forum is easily accomplished in seconds around a campfire.
on the clore unit does it have an IP or outdoor rating?
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JHZR2
Staff member
Now you’re convoluting points.
At the end of a trip you don’t need to fast charge, just charge to full? Ok, sure, and guess what, if it’s just about there, it doesn’t matter one bit what the charger or it’s rating is, because you’re in that range of exponential decay of how much current is going in... again, Ohms law. Try it for yourself, put the 25A charger on a freshly run battery, in no time flat it will only be accepting an amp or less. You’re making a case based upon an application that none of us are aware of, and might not be relevant to automotive use even!
The ability of a charger to charge a specific bank is an arbitrary control basis. The optimate says it themselves:
(See note).
It’s arbitrary for the reason I explained before, to avoid pushing current into a high impedance short that could cause a fire or thermal runaway in a battery. Why, if you have a sufficiently low battery and a 25A ctek, you wouldn’t run that, is beyond me.
FWIW, I suspect the NOCO has an unstated charge cutoff of 12-18 hours.
While we are splitting hairs, there’s also no indication that the float provided by the optimists is temperature compensated.
You mention that the minder has only four lights so it doesn’t tell you as much as optimate. Really? Because I know what the voltage ranges are at each point, so I know close enough, within the realm of guesstimating, every bit as well. If I want a true one decimal place value, I still need to get out the multimeter, which was my point from the start relative to the benefit of the Clore unit over all others.
And again, many tools in the toolbox. Different folks choose different ones for different reasons. I could frame a house with a small ball pein hammer, but why would I when better, more purpose specific tools exist? As always, there are lots of ways to skin a cat, some are user preference and some are for other reasons. Not sure why youre set on arguing for the optimate. It’s a fine charger. My personal preference as someone who owns multiple NOCO, ctek, minder and an optimate is that it’s not my favorite. So what? I still use it, as do you. Why are we splitting hairs here?
Just 2 guys talking about chargers and charging.
I think we agree on more than we may disagree on.
Anytime I learn about a charger(s) I don't yet owns capabilities its a good thing to me.
Not trying to argue at all.
I think we agree the more info the better, and that clore has the most, but it missing the active temp the ctek 2500 is
Can it sit in the rain or get wet at all?
You asked for a why, its a situation I come across often, Im done using something and I want to bring it up to 100% and maintain it.
Could be a bike, quad, mortohome bank 1 &2 , or car or truck. This cannot be that rare?
Why, if you have a sufficiently low battery and a 25A ctek, you wouldn’t run that, is beyond me.
Are you saying you'd use a 25 amp charger on a motorcycle battery?
Yes really - the optimate gives you voltage rating on what light combos mean, it also runs a test at clamp on.
If Im heading over a friends house if I bring an optimate I can pretty much leave a meter behind and still get a decent range.
I think we both agree if we want to within a 10nth in any range we need a meter.
Does the battery minder spec what 3/4 and or full means - or do you only know that because you measured it?
Does the Noco?
I think we both agree if we want to within a 10nth we need a meter, but Id rather not grab 2 items if I can get away with one.
Seems like we both have a lot of chargers
Ive got about a dozen chargers 5 or 6 different types of chargers and Im always looking at every tool that comes out so as to widen my toolbox.
I think we agree on more than we may disagree on.
Anytime I learn about a charger(s) I don't yet owns capabilities its a good thing to me.
Not trying to argue at all.
I think we agree the more info the better, and that clore has the most, but it missing the active temp the ctek 2500 is
Can it sit in the rain or get wet at all?
You asked for a why, its a situation I come across often, Im done using something and I want to bring it up to 100% and maintain it.
Could be a bike, quad, mortohome bank 1 &2 , or car or truck. This cannot be that rare?
Why, if you have a sufficiently low battery and a 25A ctek, you wouldn’t run that, is beyond me.
Are you saying you'd use a 25 amp charger on a motorcycle battery?
Yes really - the optimate gives you voltage rating on what light combos mean, it also runs a test at clamp on.
If Im heading over a friends house if I bring an optimate I can pretty much leave a meter behind and still get a decent range.
I think we both agree if we want to within a 10nth in any range we need a meter.
Does the battery minder spec what 3/4 and or full means - or do you only know that because you measured it?
Does the Noco?
I think we both agree if we want to within a 10nth we need a meter, but Id rather not grab 2 items if I can get away with one.
Seems like we both have a lot of chargers
Ive got about a dozen chargers 5 or 6 different types of chargers and Im always looking at every tool that comes out so as to widen my toolbox.
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While we're pinning down details...
On the front page of the optimate 6 manual it says its "thermally adjusted"
On the front page of the optimate 6 manual it says its "thermally adjusted"
Well my solar 20 amp charger(Clore) died over christmas.
It didnt have a hard life. 4.5yr old.
For now I purchased a 4amp viking for $25.
90% of the time I'm just topping up batteries and 12hours doesnt matter.
Will probably purchase another charger when something I want goes on sale.
Sometime when the solar was on the 2013 equinox.. it died.
now it clicks the relay to start.. voltage doesnt rise.. and after 10s it shuts off and says 100% then drops to correct %
for example my tractor battery was reading 65% charged.. clicks on.. 10s clicks off says full 100% then 30s later goes back to 65%
might take it apart for autopsy.
It didnt have a hard life. 4.5yr old.
For now I purchased a 4amp viking for $25.
90% of the time I'm just topping up batteries and 12hours doesnt matter.
Will probably purchase another charger when something I want goes on sale.
Sometime when the solar was on the 2013 equinox.. it died.
now it clicks the relay to start.. voltage doesnt rise.. and after 10s it shuts off and says 100% then drops to correct %
for example my tractor battery was reading 65% charged.. clicks on.. 10s clicks off says full 100% then 30s later goes back to 65%
might take it apart for autopsy.
JHZR2
Staff member
(there use to be a cheers emoji)...I thought you were talking about a 240Ah bank? Tools in the tool box... Yeah, the 25A charger would work, certainly Ive used it on smaller automotive batteries, watching current in - and the 25A immediately degrades to 8-10A or lower. Nature of the beast based upon impedance and voltages. No different than when that battery is in a car with a 100A+ alternator...
Call me pig-headed, but I almost always want a meter, especially if going someplace where Id need to investigate something. The only time I dont care to use a meter is when I am plugging in a known-used vehicle, with a known good battery, into a maintenance charger, because Im going to let it sit a while.
WRT the Minder, the symbols are more or less consistent with the CTEK, you know what part of the charge cycle youre in. The Noco is a bit less obvious, but again, I like my own meter, not lights, personally. Carrying a fluke 179 as well as a charger just isnt a concern to me, and can be very handy if I actually need to investigate something...
But fundamentally I agree, and like the idea of widening the toolbox if something good is available.
I know, mine even has a degree symbol on it to show that capability. But the language related to float is curious, if it is floating 30m on/off, is that voltage temperature compensated? That is not clear to me...
Interesting. Mine is probably about the same age. Does it do that on all current settings? Perhaps lower range would use less switches and operate?
For topping up batteries the current level doesnt matter as much, as the 90-~100% is a much slower timeline than the rest of it, regardless of charger rating, it is an exponential decay.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
At 13.6VDC I don’t think it matters whether it’s temp compensates. I’ve read of float voltages ranging from 13.3 to 13.9. I prefer 13.9.
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