Noack Variances

Originally Posted by kstanf150
With all the different people who post here

Is there anybody who works in the oil refining, oil manufacturing, oil blending, oil bottling, oil chemist, or even just packing the boxes and shipping it out ???????

Lots of folks around here have all the answers
But who works in the oil industry who knows what really goes into manufacturing and bottling motor oil ????

Who is it ????


No Bob left the building many moons ago haha. Noack is the most important aspect of oil choice it would seem lol another new trend to find the 'best' oil haha
 
Originally Posted by kstanf150
But who works in the oil industry who knows what really goes into manufacturing and bottling motor oil ????

Even if someone knows, it is considered highly confidential information guarded by NDAs, so they are not going to reveal company secrets on a public internet forum, unless they are complete idiots.
 
I would think they would only lurk here to see what customers are up to. They can get plenty techno stuff in house, through committees, racing teams, or car/truck builders.

It's likely discouraged since there could be confrontational exchanges with a customer who thinks they know about something they don't …

Have folks not noticed the moderators temper these Q&A sessions.
(mostly with the same company anyway).
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
I would think they would only lurk here to see what customers are up to. They can get plenty techno stuff in house, through committees, racing teams, or car/truck builders.

It's likely discouraged since there could be confrontational exchanges with a customer who thinks they know about something they don't …

Have folks not noticed the moderators temper these Q&A sessions.
(mostly with the same company anyway).


They are not lurking on here haha. Bob represents what 1% of customers. The other statement I can agree with in some ways but that's a can of worms.
 
Actually marketing would, not chemistry types … it's social media for lubricants …
 
Thank you, buster for pointing out to these tests.

I don't like the spelling of Noack as NOAK. Someone must tell them it's a proper name, not an acronym, and there is a c.

I had to go over ASTM D5800.
lol.gif


To make things more complicated, it turns out that there are four separate procedures: Procedure A-Woods metal apparatus, Procedure B-non-Woods metal apparatus, Procedure C-Selby-Noack volatility test, and Procedure D-Automated non-Woods metal Noack S2 volatility test apparatus.

Procedures A and C are equivalent and so are Procedures B and D.

They are required the report results within 0.1 (to one decimal place) as D5800 A/C or B5800 B/D. There are approximate conversion factors between the two methods, and the difference is 3-4%. For Noack = 9.0, not specifying the method alone brings an uncertainty of ±0.4.

These are the errors for 5% (1 in 20) chance of exceeding them:

Repeatability (using the same lab and apparatus): 0.1331 × Noackâ°Â·â·â´â´Â³ for Procedures B, C, and D, and 0.058 × Noack for Procedure A

Reproducibility: 0.2411 × Noackâ°Â·â·â´â´Â³ for Procedures B, C, and D, and 0.183 × Noack for Procedure A.

For an oil with Noack = 9.0, the reproducibility error (across labs) is ±1.2! The repeatability error (same apparatus and lab) is ±0.7. It would be lot larger if Procedure A was used.

Therefore, the differences in the Noack values of the Amsoil PDS's and YouTube videos are well within the reproducibility error.
 
^^^ In other words ... not worth "splitting hairs" with Noack numbers.
 
Good info Gokhan.
Like dave1251 said not significant due to errors.

You want to know the truth & a real low Noack?
Can you handle the truth?
shocked2.gif


Based on my limited research, I found the lowest ever to be:
Amsoil SS 10W30 Noack is 4.1
shocked2.gif

I Likes me this oil
grin2.gif


Also based on my limited research , Couple other good Noack numbers with a relatively low prices ($22 /5 qt). I have a couple jug of these:
Castrol GTX Magnatec Full Synthetic 5W30 Noack is 8.9
Castrol GTX Magnatec Full Synthetic 10W30 is 6.95

Wonder if op has numbers for these oil. Published vs. the YouTube tests.
 
Mystik Marine 25w40 semi is 4.5 … but how would that fare on some newer PCMO tests ?
 
Yeah, I got a dose of -20 there recently … that oil would be sold in wax bricks then …
 
Huh, what do you know. I'm not sure but I think someone already mentioned that there were four procedures in the standard.

Thanks for the actual information rather than goofy conclusions and pronouncements based on personal bias.

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Thank you, buster for pointing out to these tests.

I don't like the spelling of Noack as NOAK. Someone must tell them it's a proper name, not an acronym, and there is a c.

I had to go over ASTM D5800.
lol.gif


To make things more complicated, it turns out that there are four separate procedures: Procedure A-Woods metal apparatus, Procedure B-non-Woods metal apparatus, Procedure C-Selby-Noack volatility test, and Procedure D-Automated non-Woods metal Noack S2 volatility test apparatus.

Procedures A and C are equivalent and so are Procedures B and D.

They are required the report results within 0.1 (to one decimal place) as D5800 A/C or B5800 B/D. There are approximate conversion factors between the two methods, and the difference is 3-4%. For Noack = 9.0, not specifying the method alone brings an uncertainty of ±0.4.

These are the errors for 5% (1 in 20) chance of exceeding them:

Repeatability (using the same lab and apparatus): 0.1331 × Noackâ°Â·â·â´â´Â³ for Procedures B, C, and D, and 0.058 × Noack for Procedure A

Reproducibility: 0.2411 × Noackâ°Â·â·â´â´Â³ for Procedures B, C, and D, and 0.183 × Noack for Procedure A.

For an oil with Noack = 9.0, the reproducibility error (across labs) is ±1.2! The repeatability error (same apparatus and lab) is ±0.7. It would be lot larger if Procedure A was used.

Therefore, the differences in the Noack values of the Amsoil PDS's and YouTube videos are well within the reproducibility error.
 
Originally Posted by Tom NJ
Here is a link to a paper detailing and comparing the Noack ASTM D 5800 methods:

Present Noack techniques—applications, limitations, and use in specifications—by Theodore Selby

Thanks for this nice Savant Laboratories paper! I didn't know Theodore Selby worked for the Savant Laboratories.

Savant Laboratories later added the Procedure D I mentioned.

Savant Labs rev up to run ASTM D5800 Procedure D

So, Procedure A and Procedure C, with results equivalent to each other's but different than the Procedure B's and Procedure D's, are about to be gone, and Procedure D provides equivalent but more precise results than Procedure B.

Speaking of different procedures under the ASTM specs, the ASTM FTIR oxidation, nitration, and sulfation procedures also have Procedure A and Procedure B. They give quite different results, but unfortunately the various oil-analysis laboratories usually don't specify which being used.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Yeah, I got a dose of -20 there recently … that oil would be sold in wax bricks then …

Apparently this is what people do there.

How do people drive in Russia when it's −50 °C?

"The most radical method is avoid turning the engine off at all from autumn onwards. This is what many car owners do here: From October until April they park their car with the engine running, leaving the key inside and the alarm on, using a second key to open the car when they want to get back in."

Along with less radical methods:

[Linked Image from cdni.rbth.com]

[Linked Image from cdni.rbth.com]

[Linked Image from cdni.rbth.com]
 
That's a dam good reason to move right there !!!!

Good lord I couldn't deal with those extremes !!!!!
 
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