Newer VW reliability

[brianl703]

You do realize that's it's 2005 and not 1945, don't you?

Oh wait, you do, as you informed me what year it is...hmm...so why are we talking about WWII again?

 

[Audi Junkie]

Bri, is there a point to your posts other than to contradict mine? Sad. I kinda feel sorry for you.

 

[brianl703]

The point I'm making is that it has been 60 years since WWII and this is NOT the same country politically, industrially, economically..that it was back then.

For one thing, it truely is a global marketplace--there are more German-made parts under the hood of a Ford than you might think. They build engines and transmissions in Germany. (EDIT: They do engineering there, too) Likewise, Toyota uses American-made parts in their vehicles. There are probably many more examples but these are the ones that I've seen first-hand.

That wasn't true back then.

So it would seem to me that trying to draw parallels between today and 60 years ago simply isn't valid, for that reason and others.

[ August 02, 2005, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[Audi Junkie]

Yeah, all cars are basicly the same. Are we done now?

 

[brianl703]

Since you're apparently reading things which I didn't write or imply, this communication problem isn't on my end, therefore I believe we are done.

 

[Willy_G]

quote:

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The German planes were overly technical, were produced in low numbers, required high octance and spares were in short supply.

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The more things change the more they stay the same;

- 505.xx, 502.xx, 501.xx REQUIRED oils
- 92 octane REQUIRED
- Must use VAG computer to check ATF
- Not enought MAFs for recall
- Come back next week for a window regulator
- We'll only replace 1 of the 4 coils

Don't forget, the U.S. rebuilt Japan and Deming showed them how to be a high-tech, reliable, global producer.

OK. I'm done.

 

[Jim 5]

There's points to be made on either side of the argument. If you want the final word, open consumer reports and look at the black/red circles.

I like german cars for me because I like performance and feel...I'm willing to pay more and for this. (up-front and maintenance)

I like japanese cars for my wife because I don't want to think or hear about problems with her car. This is an appliance...even if it has leather seats.

I've had plenty of american cars and I don't like the feel, the reliability or the way the dealers MFG's treat me.

In my view, the big three are being supported by the people that have always bought american because they remember a time when american cars were the best. Those times are over and those blindly loyal people are dying. Especially since many "Japanese" vehicles are built in our back yards here in North America. All the Big 3 car ads can rely on and concentrate on are emotions/apple pie advertising. It's all they've got left.

I like Honda's odds for the future. Today's generation of young car buyers don't have their blinders on for the big 3. In fact, if there's any blinders, they have them for honda's. I've got to hand it to honda, they make an excellent car...reliable, nice looking, good fuel economy, good resale..BUT SOMEHOW THEY'VE CONVINCED THESE KIDS THAT A HONDA CIVIC IS A SPORTS CAR!

Brilliant marketing...considering that most honda's are gutless and boring appliances for economical transportation...and this fact had been their only drawback.

In my view the only thing the big three had going for them in the last 20 years is their full size trucks. Toyota made an awesome truck but it was too small. Now with the Titan, we're truly getting a full size japanese truck.

Maybe this trend is why GM, dodge and ford are blowing out all of their vehicles.

I don't care either way...and I'll buy whichever brand best suits my needs. The problem is, the big three rarely fits into that category any more.

The guys that swear by the big three should put their money where their mouths are and invest their entire retirement nestegg in those stocks. You won't see me doing that. But to be fair, I wouldn't do so for VW either.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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The entire point of this thread is to discuss VW's apparent lack of reliability, and I'm afraid that unlike Buick VW has a long and glorious history of electrical gremlins, sludgy engines, and problematic vehicles. I don't care of the switchgear is made of plastic or the car has a "floaty" suspension or an old-tech engine (which is very reliable and gets good mileage).

If I had to pick a vehicle to drive across the United States coast-to-coast I wouldn't even bat an eye between a VW and a Buick, I'd take the Buick.

You /cannot/ be so in love with Audi/VW that you can't see the facts, and those facts are that VW has more problems than Buick, period.

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None of my cars had more mechanical and electric problems than my Buick! Whether it was the MAP sensor, the ECM, the lights, the ignition system, the window lifters, torque converter problems, engine problems -- take your pick, all those areas were a constant cause of problems. Going on trips with that car was always an adventure, because I knew it'd break down. It's Chevy twin, which I owned before, was not quite as bad, but by now means as reliable as even my '81 Opel (GM) Kadett, which was pretty much crap compared to my VWs and my Audi. I like my Audi's reliablity. It hasn't let me sit by the side of the road once in 139k miles.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Speaking of Consumer Reports, guess what was their #1 mid-priced sedan for the last 6-7 years?
Passat. My mom is quite happy with her 10 year old previous generation one too. Paint and inside look like new. Solid, like riding in a cinder block. No mechanical issues at all...except one, it did have the digital odometer glitch that VW had a $150 exchange programme for...which would disqualify it from being owned by a number of guys here. Not entirely a bad thing, from the feeling I'm getting.

 

[Willy_G]

Junkie,

I don't think the Passat was the #1 mid-sized sedan by Consumer Reports. I think it was the ONLY car from VW/Audi they could reccommend in the past few years.

I might be wrong, so go dig out your old magazines and let us know the volume(s), issue(s) and page(s) backing your claim as stated by CR.

 

[TooSlick]

CR has both the Passat sedan and Passat wagon (w/ the V-6) rated as the #1 midsized choices, since the B5 platform came out in 1998. I believe the new Accord and Camry are #2 and #3 respectively on this survey. The German made Passat is basically an Audi A4 without all the bells and whistles. The build quality, fit and finish and interior materials are excellent.

Reliability has been very good on the "B5" passat, which first came out in 1998. If you look at the "Best Cars" issue of CR (April?) from any of the past 5-6 years, you'll see the overall ratings in the front of the magazine.

One thing about the CR reliability scores is that they are relative rankings. Even a "below average", rated vehicle today would have been rated "above average" if compared to the vehicles of just 5-6 years ago. Basically, everyones reliability/durability is improving, but the Japanese and Koreans are improving at a faster rate than the Domestics or Europeans.

 

[Tosh]

Current excerpt from ConsumerReports.org relating to VW:
"Used cars to avoid

Here are all the models that showed below-average reliability in our 2004 survey. They are listed alphabetically by make, model, and year.
Audi A4 (4-cyl.) ‘98-00, ‘02, A4 (V6) ‘97-00,
‘02-03; A6/Avant ’99, A6 Allroad ’01, ’03; A6 3.0 ’98, ’02; A6 ’00; TT ‘01-02
Volkswagen Cabrio ’99, ‘01-02; EuroVan ’03; Golf ‘97-03; Jetta ‘97-03; New Beetle ‘98-04; Passat (4-cyl.) ‘98-99, ‘01-02; Passat (V6) ’97, ‘99-01, ’04; Passat (AWD) ‘00-01, ’04; Passat W8 ’03; Touareg ‘04"

There are also no VW-Audi models listed as CR "reliable used cars" from 97-04.

TooSlick: You owe us an explanation for your claim that "Reliability has been very good on the "B5" passat, which first came out in 1998."

CR did and does like the Passat for its as-new overall performance, but is justifiably leery of its reliability. Obviously a car model can be well engineered and assembled and be a good, fun performer, but still have basement level reliability. And by the sound of it, certain sophisticated owners can buck these trends.

PS: From the same CR list of used cars to avoid, the only Honda and Toyota products were the Honda Passport ‘97-99 (rebadged Isuzu) and Lexus GX470 ‘03 (?)

 

[Audi Junkie]

Like I said in my original benign post, coilpacks and whiny owners account for most VW problems. My car has neither.

 

[Buick92]

Our family has owned (3) VW's over the past ten years, they are great driving cars in my opinion. All three had electrical gremlins, from dome lights that would stay on to gauges that wouldn't work. I think most people are aware with VW's electrical problems and are willing to overlook them. I think you are mistaken to believe you are getting honda reliability when you purchase a VW.

 

[rjundi]

My friend a VW nut, has only had a positive experience with their 2000 VW Golf with 80k miles. A few recalls and unfortuntely just a lock issue causing a conflict with the alarm. Otherwise oil changes every 6-7k on dino

.

 

[bulwnkl]

While I like the Consumer Reports rankings, they are based solely on subscribers' reports. That skews the results, although it also means that the VW lovers who read CR are still having reliability problems with the cars. My wife and I nearly bought a TDI Jetta back in very late '01 (an '02 model). It was a very nice-driving car, if slow.

An example of another point raised in this thread is the first car I ever owned. A 1976-1/2 Alfa Romeo GTV (according to the closest dealer, a ferrari dealer, it was an Alfetta 2000GT). That car may well still be the most-fun car I've ever owned or driven. Nevertheless, it was a complete piece of junk. Fun and quality are two very, very different attributes.

 

[Tosh]

For argument's and simpicity's sake, if you think of 'quality' as being within a certain variance from the norm, then this might explain why there are VWs (or whatever poor-quality item you choose to discuss) where the variance has been on the 'good' side and thereby producing components that are extremely long-lasting....

 

[woof]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tosh:
For argument's and simpicity's sake, if you think of 'quality' as being within a certain variance from the norm, then this might explain why there are VWs (or whatever poor-quality item you choose to discuss) where the variance has been on the 'good' side and thereby producing components that are extremely long-lasting....

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Hence, my VW is on the 'good' side.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tosh:
For argument's and simpicity's sake, if you think of 'quality' as being within a certain variance from the norm

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I think of quality as how much each widget is alike.

Almost none of the problems I had with either of my Ford vehicles were unexpected. They were "they all do that at about that mileage" type of problems. Those type of problems are a lot easier to deal with than random failures of random components. I think random failures of random components are indicative of poor quality. I wouldn't want a car which had continual random failures of random components!

 

[Audi Junkie]

Bri, you attempt to speak authoratively about VW/Audi and other Euro brands. Could you clarify EXACTY what your personal experience is with these cars? Which, if any, have you owned/driven or worked on, or is you ranting ALL anecdotal? Could you further compare and contrast cars like the Contour that (I think) you drive with a comprable car like, hmm, the Passat my Mom bought in 1996? (that car is solid, like riding inside a cinder block) For me, I won't work on American cars because of the responsability I would incour if something "went wrong", among other reasons (gross). I have driven recent model USA gems like family Beretta, Malibu and a Focus...all much newer than Mom's Passat and frankly, they SUCKED. I work on and maintain a LOT of German cars, where I have some control over the outcome of my fiddling. FTR- one of my best friends owns a BOSCH Service Center, a premium place for Euro service, also his brother runs repairs on Japanese cars on the other side of the shop. They pretty much cover the bases and there is NO DEBATE on which cars are better and more desireable to own...but Bri thinks American cars are just the cat's meow. Tell us more about you experience and knowledge base, Bri.