New WEN 2kW Inverter Generator Grounding

[gathermewool]

The owner's manual reads as follows RE: grounding:

Quote:
Step 3 - GROUND THE GENERATOR
WARNING: Failure to properly ground the generator
can result in electrocution.
Ground the generator by tightening the grounding nut on the
front control panel against a grounding wire (Figure 3). A generally
acceptable grounding wire is a No. 12 AWG (American Wire
Gauge) stranded copper wire. This grounding wire should be
connected at the other end to a copper, brass, or steel-grounding
rod that is driven into the earth. Wire and grounding rods are not
included in generator contents.
Grounding codes can vary by location. Contact a local electrician
to check the area codes.


With a Fluke 117 I measured 0.1 ohm from each ground (including the grounding connection on the front panel) to the motor and frame. This leads me to believe that the output is grounded to the frame, which should mean that buying a ground strap and rod to ground to earth isn't required. What say you BITOG?

//

OIL: I've got a few cases of GC 0w30 leftover from my STI that I will be using in the generator. The manual stated that 0.37 quart is the capacity and this was found to be exact. I used a syringe and added as near to 350 mL as I could (small error due to not being able to inject each syringe full completely (50mL/injection) and the amount of oil left in the tubing that is not measured.)

Anyway, I read through countless posts and do agree that GC may be overkill for the 5 hours I intend to run it for break-in, but it's "stash" oil and I need to use it up anyway.

I also rolled the engine over by slowly pulling the cord 10 times without any fuel, to lubricate the ring. I haven't read about anyone who has done this, but it seemed like a good idea, if not to move around to lube, than to at least check the genny for freedom of rotation.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, recommendations, and experiences regarding my post or anything generator-related.

 

[Jim_Truett]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool


With a Fluke 117 I measured 0.1 ohm from each ground (including the grounding connection on the front panel) to the motor and frame. This leads me to believe that the output is grounded to the frame, which should mean that buying a ground strap and rod to ground to earth isn't required. What say you BITOG?


If you don't tie the chassis to an Earth ground, there is nothing preventing the chassis from developing a potential high enough to injure or kill you if there is a fault somewhere in the unit or downstream wiring.

 

[gathermewool]

Why isn't the requirement for all portable generators to be grounded to earth? Is the reason for grounding the generator to earth in case of a generator ground fault, not just a component ground?

I'm trying to figure out whether:

1. A ground to earth is ALWAYS required

2. Whether I can break-in the generator, using an ungrounded ceramic heater, without having the generator grounded.

 

[Cujet]

It's my understanding that generator grounding is not commonly performed.

We use portable generators for all sorts of work related projects, never once have we grounded one.

I suspect that a properly grounded portable generator simply protects you "if" you are (A) grounded and (B) the unit develops high potential (due to fault) and (C) you touch the frame.

I have to wonder if that's the most likely failure mode. Or if a real "short" in your attachments won't then ground you out!

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
It's my understanding that generator grounding is not commonly performed.

We use portable generators for all sorts of work related projects, never once have we grounded one.

I suspect that a properly grounded portable generator simply protects you "if" you are (A) grounded and (B) the unit develops high potential (due to fault) and (C) you touch the frame.

I have to wonder if that's the most likely failure mode. Or if a real "short" in your attachments won't then ground you out!


My thoughts, as well.

The frame is not exposed - the inverter generator is almost completely enclosed with plastic, except for the front panel and exhaust port.

 

[jhellwig]

Short answer is yes you should do what the instructions say.

I don't want to give the long explanation as even electricians get into long debates about it.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Short answer is yes you should do what the instructions say.

I don't want to give the long explanation as even electricians get into long debates about it.


Thanks for the response. If you have time to explain, go for it!

I've got a technical background, but I'm no EE, so some help would be appreciated.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Short answer is yes you should do what the instructions say.

I don't want to give the long explanation as even electricians get into long debates about it.


Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/ma03/ma5.htm

In construction and point of source use, grounding is not going to help. And, in fact, adds a touch of risk.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Short answer is yes you should do what the instructions say.

I don't want to give the long explanation as even electricians get into long debates about it.


Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/ma03/ma5.htm

In construction and point of source use, grounding is not going to help. And, in fact, adds a touch of risk.


I have had this debate before with fellow electricians(I am a licensed journeyman electrician) and I do not agree that it adds risk to bond to the earth. Very strange and hazardous things can happen when you have an ungrounded system operating next or on conductive materials(technically everything is conductive). You do not want to be the conductor that creates the bond between conductors. While the risk is slight, the conditions have the possibility to run enough current through you to hurt or kill you.

What blows my mind is that it is not a requirement to have every outlet on a generator be gfci protected. That would be far safer than just bonding the generator to the earth.

 

[gathermewool]

When asked whether the generator needed to be grounded to earth via ground electrode, even if all electrical loads would be plugged directly into the generator, WEN customer support replied with:

Quote:
Hi [gathermewool],

The generator it is grounded internally and don't need to be grounded. Very
safe to used.


If you have any questions, please call our technical support at
800-232-1195 Mon-Fri from 8-5 CST.

Thank you for your business,

The Wen Team


*Francisco Hernandez*
*Great Lakes Technologies, LLC*
*2750 Alft Lane*

*Elgin, IL 60124*

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Short answer is yes you should do what the instructions say.

I don't want to give the long explanation as even electricians get into long debates about it.


Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/ma03/ma5.htm

In construction and point of source use, grounding is not going to help. And, in fact, adds a touch of risk.


I have had this debate before with fellow electricians(I am a licensed journeyman electrician) and I do not agree that it adds risk to bond to the earth. Very strange and hazardous things can happen when you have an ungrounded system operating next or on conductive materials(technically everything is conductive). You do not want to be the conductor that creates the bond between conductors. While the risk is slight, the conditions have the possibility to run enough current through you to hurt or kill you.

What blows my mind is that it is not a requirement to have every outlet on a generator be gfci protected. That would be far safer than just bonding the generator to the earth.


Good point RE: GFCI; do you have any recommendations for which to use? I see a few on Amazon for <$20.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
When asked whether the generator needed to be grounded to earth via ground electrode, even if all electrical loads would be plugged directly into the generator, WEN customer support replied with:

Quote:
Hi [gathermewool],

The generator it is grounded internally and don't need to be grounded. Very
safe to used.


If you have any questions, please call our technical support at
800-232-1195 Mon-Fri from 8-5 CST.

Thank you for your business,

The Wen Team


*Francisco Hernandez*
*Great Lakes Technologies, LLC*
*2750 Alft Lane*

*Elgin, IL 60124*


That reply looks as though they would have told you it is safe to use no matter what.

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Short answer is yes you should do what the instructions say.

I don't want to give the long explanation as even electricians get into long debates about it.


Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/ma03/ma5.htm

In construction and point of source use, grounding is not going to help. And, in fact, adds a touch of risk.


I have had this debate before with fellow electricians(I am a licensed journeyman electrician) and I do not agree that it adds risk to bond to the earth. Very strange and hazardous things can happen when you have an ungrounded system operating next or on conductive materials(technically everything is conductive). You do not want to be the conductor that creates the bond between conductors. While the risk is slight, the conditions have the possibility to run enough current through you to hurt or kill you.

What blows my mind is that it is not a requirement to have every outlet on a generator be gfci protected. That would be far safer than just bonding the generator to the earth.


Good point RE: GFCI; do you have any recommendations for which to use? I see a few on Amazon for div>


If you are talking about the short corded ones that you plug in the just make sure you get one from a reputable name brand. There are lots of knock off electrical stuff out there that has had the ul label faked and the item may of may not work.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig


What blows my mind is that it is not a requirement to have every outlet on a generator be gfci protected. That would be far safer than just bonding the generator to the earth.


I suspect the electrical noise would freak them out.

OTOH I have a legit UL transfer switch that powers the bathroom lights and my GFIs don't complain. When I shut down my generator I unload it first and the transient from doing that might injure/annoy any generator's built in GFI.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
I do not agree that it adds risk to bond to the earth.


If the generator is ungrounded, one can touch any single output leg without risk, as there is no path for conductivity. If both you and the generator are grounded, contact with either hot leg will result in a shock. Remember, the neutral is always the ground on a 240V system.

It's unlikely, yes. But there is a touch of added risk.

It is also amazingly easy to demonstrate.... (just a little joke) I will not ask for volunteers...

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Remember, the neutral is always the ground on a 240V system.


Which is why there are now 4-wire 240V outlets for many uses like clothes dryers.

Around here we have folks who talk about step-and-touch potential. We also have strict limits on how long an extension cord can be used in a substation yard.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Remember, the neutral is always the ground on a 240V system.


Which is why there are now 4-wire 240V outlets for many uses like clothes dryers.


Even so, the 4 wire systems do not use a "floating neutral". The neutral and ground are tied together, generally in the breaker box.

A healthy electrical system:

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
I do not agree that it adds risk to bond to the earth.


If the generator is ungrounded, one can touch any single output leg without risk, as there is no path for conductivity. If both you and the generator are grounded, contact with either hot leg will result in a shock. Remember, the neutral is always the ground on a 240V system.

It's unlikely, yes. But there is a touch of added risk.

It is also amazingly easy to demonstrate.... (just a little joke) I will not ask for volunteers...


No no no no no. That is a very dangerous thing to say for both things.

Touching an wire on an ungrounded system can be very dangerous. You can get away with it in certian situations but you are putting yourself at great risk doing it. At higher voltages you don't even have to be touching anything for it to harm you. The hazard is really increased if you have two generators operating in close proximity.


As far as the nuteral being the ground on 240 volt outlets that is only the case for clothes dryer and range outlets installed before 1996. That's it. And it was never a good idea even when it was allowed by the NEC and many local jurisdictions didn't allow it.

Making poorly informed generalizations about electricity is what gets people killed and is why there is a national electric code in the first place.