New TDI diesels

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jayg

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I really like them and I am considering buying one next year , either TDI beetle or golf. Smaller the car the better. The thing is though, as far as diesel cars go in the US, they are 30% more expensive and and fuel is too. Cost per mile in a 45 mpg avg TDI Beetle is literally $.01 lower than my Nissan that gets 32 mpg on gas.

So , I like them but I wouldn't get it because they're cheap to operate , I'd get i because I'd like the torque of 240 ft lbs in a little beetle and be able to have a far cruising range. Then when it's out of warranty have it do biodiesel.

Thoughts?
 
Forget the biodiesel in a modern VW TDI. Apparently they can handle 5% bio, but no more.

There are some smaller turbo gas engine cars that get good gas mileage while offering decent acceleration too.
 
Funny you bring this up -- my car is currently getting serviced so I have an A3 TDI as a service loaner.

The motor is definitely torquey but until about 1800rpm it is ridiculously slow. As in "am I even pushing the pedal" slow. The S tronic dual-clutch helps keep the engine on power, but pulling away from a light or merging into traffic from a stop is not speedy.

Other than that I do like the excellent gas mileage and linear power. My loaner is not equipped with quattro so at high throttle angles it's pretty easy to spin the tires.
 
My brother has a 2011 golf TDI and has been doing great with it. Around here, Diesel is around midgrade gasoline price wise.
 
I used to want a TDI but it was before 2 things..

1. The price of diesel being quite a bit more (currently $4.24 and normal gas being $3.69 here) and the upswing with winter diesel which will raise it even more $$.

2. The new EPA garbage that raised both the costs of getting the engine and even more to maintain it.

Both of those have made anything diesel out of my book. When I can average 42+ MPG out of a NORMAL gas vehicle over 260,000 miles why play with complicated devices?

And that is not even bringing in some of VW and their "features" like wiring and questionable build of their Mexican vehicles.

Bill
 
Not only diesel price is higher than gasoline, the availability is another problem. At least in So Cal not all stations have diesel, of those stations less than 50% of the pumps have diesel.
 
I filled up yesterday at a station that has both gas and diesel.

10% ethanol (which I filled up with) was $3.28/gallon. Diesel was $4.09/gallon.

I'm not sure (at least in this area) how anyone can justify an 81 cent per gallon premium for marginal gains in mileage. I'm glad that I'm not saddled with fuel prices well over $4.00 while others are paying $3.28.
 
I think you have to decide what you want: a premium car that has a long cruising range and high mpg's, tight driving manners *and* which will have repair costs to go with it, negating any saveings; or bare bones transportation that runs you the least. A TDI really isn't an economy car. One buys one because they want something a bit different, but is trying to limit the fuel costs so that the overal running cost isn't so bad.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
A TDI really isn't an economy car. One buys one because they want something a bit different, but is trying to limit the fuel costs so that the overal running cost isn't so bad.


This is what I feel as well. A 23k car isn't THAT expensive these days. It it feels nice and drives nice and MPG/range is just a bonus, then that's where the TDI shines. Cost per mile isn't. Just like somebody buying a 30k Chevy Malibu that get 28 mpg, sure they COULD have gotten a Fiesta and gotten 40 mpg but they wanted the Malibu and felt the rest of the equation was worth it. It comes down to how much you want one.

Also diesel is available just about everywhere down here as I live right off I 75 and truckers are everywhere going through Atlanta.

Also the urea injection in the exhaust seems like its not on all the cars. Can anybody explain that?
 
Originally Posted By: jayg
...Also the urea injection in the exhaust seems like its not on all the cars. Can anybody explain that?


I am not sure about the Beetle, but the Passat has Ad Blue and the Golf (current) and Jetta (including Sportwagen) do not. (also the Mark VI Golf has (or will soon) ceased production and the new Mark VII probably won't be here until mid/late 2013?

Weight has been put forth as a possible reason for the use of Ad Blue.

I think if you run the cost comparison between two similarly equipped car the TDI is only about 1500.00 more initially and the cost per mile will look a little more favorable.

Also being in the Atl metro, you have 4-5 dealers (depending on how far you are willing to travel) and they are competitive so you should be able to get a decent deal.

Also, I'm sure a TDI is slow compared to an S4, but compared to a Versa definitely not so much. I find ours to be not slow from a stop.
 
Originally Posted By: jayg


Also the urea injection in the exhaust seems like its not on all the cars. Can anybody explain that?


More expensive and more replacement of other types of filters/cats/$$/?? I'd guess.

All I do know is the cost has gone up and who knows about the long term reliability of such systems.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder

I think if you run the cost comparison between two similarly equipped car the TDI is only about 1500.00 more initially and the cost per mile will look a little more favorable.


If I get 42 mpg with $3.69 reg unleaded then the diesel needs to get a little over 48mpg to be EVEN.

$1500 buys a LOT of fuel. (quick math for me.. 406 gallons @ 42 MPG = 17,000 miles of fuel)

And again with a simpler engine. How much do one of those DPF (diesel particulate filters) cost? How often do they need to be replaced for smog? Are they not close to $2000 plus $500 for the cat?

Like I said, I'd love to have a TDI (and have said here MANY times in the 10 years I've been here. Would be perfect for my style of driving) But not now. Too expensive for the bottom end.

Take care, bill
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
...And again with a simpler engine. How much do one of those DPF (diesel particulate filters) cost? How often do they need to be replaced for smog? Are they not close to $2000 plus $500 for the cat?


If I am reading the parts diagram correctly a DPF is 2400 retail BUT VW sells re-manufactured for 1200. A new Cat for a gas car is ~1000 (depends on manufacture date and options)

In the end each person has to decide what they want and if the cost is justified, but IMO running a cost comparison between a Versa and a TDI is like running one between a TDI and an E Class.

But hey, that is why there are so many choices, nearly anyone should be able to find something to suit them.

Oh and our TDI DOES get a little over 48.
wink.gif
 
I really liked the TDI I drove last fall in Germany (quick, great MPG, would cruise at 220-230 KMPH) and with the price of diesel over there (at about .81 E/Litre vs. Petrol at .90 E/Litre), it was a great car, and if I lived there, I would buy one.

But I wouldn't get one here...pay more for the engine, as much for the maintenance, more for the fuel, to get what: a 15% improvement in economy? The math doesn't add up...
 
A diesel loaner? Isn't that little dangerous? Most customers would not remember to put the diesel in it. Do dealers give it with a full tank all the time?
 
Originally Posted By: supton
15% improvement over what? What models are you comparing it to?


Over the gasoline version...my use of the word, "what, 15%" shows an estimation...a point of discussion, not a precise analysis. If you want precision: The German version of the car is slightly different than NA, where the car has been made a unique model, so apples - apples is difficult, but in the US, the 4 banger is 22/32, the V-6 is 20/28 and the TDI is 33/41, making the TDI about 30% more efficient than the 4 banger...on the highway...I really don't want to get into the details, since I don't know the OP's intended use: hwy vs. city, miles per year or how much he is paying for the $$ of the increased costs of the TDI (base price on the TDI SE is $26,200, the 4 banger is $23,900...that is a $2,300 difference)...and the price of fuel, in my area is more than $0.50 greater beween unleaded and diesel...I was being kind in saying that the maintenance was similar, because I suspect that it's not...break even point for the car is long past when the warranty runs out...and past when most people ditch their new cars...

I put about 2,000 KM on the Passat TDi in Germany, mostly on the Autobahn, where it was a great performing car, and it's really nice: fit/finish, features, handling, ride, etc....the point is: I would buy it if I lived in Germany, but not living here...
 
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