New Mobil 1 FS 0w-40

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
In Canada maybe, here in the U.S. web sites show no LL-01 product. It actually clearly says something along the lines: Mobil1 currently does not have LL-01 product available in the U.S.

Good grief. This is probably a dealer only product here, and I'd be afraid to ask Imperial Oil about the container sizes. It's called a Mobil 3000, and most of them in Canada are bulk products.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The oil currently does not have LL-01 certification, and therefore (absent baseless speculation) one must make the assumption that it cannot meet LL-01.

And that would be more baseless yet. Mobil Super conventional meets the basic Chrysler specification. Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP in the same viscosities do not. Are you saying that M1 and M1 EP cannot meet the Chrysler specification, which is virtually nothing beyond SN/GF-5?

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It is fascinating to watch people so blindly and fervently defend XOM with nothing but speculation.


I see some speculative explanations, but no "blind defence".

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The oil has been out for 6 months now with no certification; it cannot pass BMW's LL-01 standard. Plain and simple. One of the largest oil companies in the world doesn't just let this happen because of timing or administrative issues.


This is pure speculation. Unless you are on the product development or marketing team of the appropriate Mobil business you can not say anything more than "it doesn't have the BMW LL-01 approval". This is all we know. Bobbydavro has offered some insights to reasons that can lead to this, which include admin, timing, marketing and yes, possibly, inability to meet the specification. It is far from "plain and simple".

 

[virginoil]

XOM are sitting and enjoying this thread, the great who dun it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The oil currently does not have LL-01 certification, and therefore (absent baseless speculation) one must make the assumption that it cannot meet LL-01.

And that would be more baseless yet. Mobil Super conventional meets the basic Chrysler specification. Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP in the same viscosities do not. Are you saying that M1 and M1 EP cannot meet the Chrysler specification, which is virtually nothing beyond SN/GF-5?


I know, the dude that whacks us for making unsubstantiated assumptions makes the biggest one of all. If you look back at his posts he makes this statement. I guess he doesn't know either

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: buster
It has nothing to do with not being able to meet it. It's more of a timing issue from what I've read.

It's all speculation at this point, for or against (however, wasn't there a quote from someone at Mobil stating they currently don't meet the updated N20 LL-01 spec?). Regardless, I'd be surprised if we didn't see an LL-01 cert on the bottle in the next 6 months.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I know, the dude that whacks us for making unsubstantiated assumptions makes the biggest one of all. If you look back at his posts he makes this statement. I guess he doesn't know either

I am not speculating. I am taking what is on the bottle as fact. The oil used to be certified, went through a reformulation, and now does not have the LL-01 certification. Simple logic dictates that the oil now does not pass the new LL-01 certification. As was mentioned earlier, oil manufacturers know well in-advance of a change in the certification, and they don't wait until an oil is on the market to begin the certification process.

 

[buster]

Response from ExxonMobil
ExxonMobil Team, ExxonMobil
May 16, 2016
Quality & performance of the new Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is comparable to the outgoing Mobil 1 0W-40, carrying many of the same claims. However, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 no longer carries BMW LL-01, due to changes in BMW’s testing requirement.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1?WT.mc_id=cpc_Google_Mobil1_mobil-1&WT.srch=1

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted By: buster
Response from ExxonMobil
ExxonMobil Team, ExxonMobil
May 16, 2016
Quality & performance of the new Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is comparable to the outgoing Mobil 1 0W-40, carrying many of the same claims. However, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 no longer carries BMW LL-01, due to changes in BMW’s testing requirement.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1?WT.mc_id=cpc_Google_Mobil1_mobil-1&WT.srch=1


what change though, ahhhhhhh. what specifically couldnt the M1 do??

 

[kschachn]

Yeah, that's clear as mud - which is typical for their responses.

 

[bobbydavro]

That is surprising to be that open about your own product fundamentally not being good enough for an OEM spec.

Ah well, other 0W-40s out there with the spec.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: buster
Response from ExxonMobil
ExxonMobil Team, ExxonMobil
May 16, 2016
Quality & performance of the new Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is comparable to the outgoing Mobil 1 0W-40, carrying many of the same claims. However, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 no longer carries BMW LL-01, due to changes in BMW’s testing requirement.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1?WT.mc_id=cpc_Google_Mobil1_mobil-1&WT.srch=1



what change though, ahhhhhhh. what specifically couldnt the M1 do??


It reminds me of the excuse they used for Chrysler products, when said they needed two years to complete the testing for the MS6395 spec. Meanwhile some of their competition already had the approval. Now only Mobil Super carries the approval.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.

 

[kschachn]

The only time I've ever seen a somewhat political question being answered fully and completely was post-Katrina when their products lost the API starburst.

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
That is surprising to be that open about your own product fundamentally not being good enough for an OEM spec.

Ah well, other 0W-40s out there with the spec.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.


Yep, and what sounded like a B_S story to people who knew what was going on.

 

[vinu_neuro]

All of this begs the questions of how long legacy approvals are valid for. Ie does an older formulation like Castrol 0W-40 or Pennzoil 5W-40 retain LL-01 approval indefinitely without having to pass the N20 test, until a reformulation?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.

This is silly speculation of course, but maybe XOM might see if Shell has bit off more than it can chew. Shell seems to love to grab these European factory fill deals all of a sudden. Yet, they can't get the European spec product reliably and broadly to market, unlike Mobil and Castrol. If the only LL-01 oil were available at the dealers, customers might start screaming. Of course, Castrol would have to play ball, too. Up here, they have at least four LL-01 varieties on the shelves, and that's outside of dealers.

I can get the European Pennzoil stuff with a little bit of effort. But, to get anything approaching a sensible price, it's going to be an EcoBox, and still won't be as cheap as any of the Castrol varieties or M1 0w-40.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
All of this begs the questions of how long legacy approvals are valid for. Ie does an older formulation like Castrol 0W-40 or Pennzoil 5W-40 retain LL-01 approval indefinitely without having to pass the N20 test, until a reformulation?

Exactly. There is just so much about the process we don't know. We see something change, and have no idea why, and come up with explanations that may be correct, or, on the other hand, totally insane.

 

[weasley]

In general terms, OEM approvals have a limited life and expire after a time defined by the OEM. At this time you may be able to refresh the approval, but if the testing regime has been changed in the mean time, you may be asked to do whatever additional testing is required to prove compliance with the latest version of the specification.

As a rule, specifications never get easier to pass when updated.

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.


Fiat only approve oils from their official oil partner.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Fiat only approve oils from their official oil partner.

What are the odds of that carrying through the Chrysler network, going down the road? Should we expect to see only Shell oils with the Chrysler specification as time progresses?

weasley: Yes, that's something to think about, too. Did M1 0w-40's LL-01 specification predate some of the others that we see, notably the newest Castrol and Shell products? GC has been around forever, so I'm not sure how many times it's gone through approval. Some Castrol A3/B4 products are newer, at least in the North American market. Shell keeps switching things around, causing confusion for all, involved. I don't think they keep a Euro oil on the shelf for more than a year at a time before starting all over.