New Mobil 1 FS 0w-40

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Here is the MB list of MB229.51 oils

https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

BMW have a similar list but it's not available publicly

However this list is exactly what it says. A list of oils with approvals which you can find all over the world with the specifications. If Mobil 1 0W-40 is on the list it need to have the spec wherever it is sold.


There is no conspiracy, mind games or even 'product cheapening' from what I can see

Why is everyone so excited by VISOM too ? I'm not sure where GTL is sourced from for the Mobil 1 FS formulation but it's probably closer to the US than the UK where VISOM is made

No one is excited about VISOM. I mentioned since M1 0W40 that uses VISOM is sold in Europe, and it was sold in the US too until new version showed up several months ago.
Same formula was used in Europe, US and rest of the world. Several months ago M1 0W40 FS without LL-01 showed up ONLY on the U.S. shelfs.
So, if this formula cannot meet LL-01 but VISOM formula can, then something is going on with GTL product and I highly doubt that M1 (or any other corporation) will move from one formula to another unless new formula is cheaper or can provide some substantial benefit over old one. From what is see with FS is that M1 choose to go cheaper route in the U.S. since it is M1, people wont ask that many questions. Maybe it is calculated move. We will loose LL-01, we will loose bit of a market, but since it is cheaper to make we will actually make more money because bulk of sale is anyway for other cars and other vehicles.

 

[bobbydavro]

It's likely not cheaper as a raw material

But the location of production or supply capacity reached meaning a forced change. Who knows but I'm not sure about the hostility of some of the views in this thread

It's also possible the VISOM version would pass if that also had to equality.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The line has to be drawn somewhere. Any some of the claims made could be legacy based on how the approval process works. However new formulation have to pass the new test rather than hang on the coat tails of a pass on the old test like formulations that haven't changed for a few years. New formulations can't run the old test as it doesn't exist anymore


I believe that answers my earlier query.....

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
It's likely not cheaper as a raw material

But the location of production or supply capacity reached meaning a forced change. Who knows but I'm not sure about the hostility of some of the views in this thread

It's also possible the VISOM version would pass if that also had to equality.

Could be location, I mean all this are hypotheticals.
For me it is still not understandable that product such as this does not cary BMW spec. Spec. of car company that is constantly number 1 or 2 in luxury segment sale in the U.S.
That is why I think that this is actually calculation on Mobil1. What is return on investment? I just cannot believe that they "forgot," (although would not be first time that something stupid caused serious consequences. Wars started because of stupid stuff) or something benign like that.
The U.S. usually gets cheaper stuff and it is much easier to sell cheaper and stuff of lower quality here then Europe.
We do not get a lot of great products that Europe gets. I think "hostility" comes from that too.
For example, Mobil1 has 0W40 ESP in Europe. I would use it ASAP. So few months ago they publish pds of that oil here in the US, however, oil cannot be find anywhere. People claim it is best, M1 is number one, but then why not having product on the market that can claim that? I think VISOM version together with Castrol 0W30/40 distinguished itself from rest of the oil field. Then SHell (Pennzoil) upped their game, and everyone expected M1 to offer equal or better product. They offer product that actually does not carry spec. of company that is one of he leaders in technological innovations for decades. So people who were buyin M1 because it is Made in USA etc. are frustrated, and forum is good way to release pressure. If they complained to wife, wife might say: I told you to buy Toyota Corolla!

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro


There is no conspiracy, mind games or even 'product cheapening' from what I can see



Do you work for XOM ?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro


There is no conspiracy, mind games or even 'product cheapening' from what I can see



Do you work for XOM ?


Nope, he works for the competition.

 

[kschachn]

I still want to see where and how it cannot meet Longlife-01 as opposed to does not meet. Where is the definitive proof that the product fails to meet the specification rather than being an administrative issue?

Nevertheless it really means next to nothing to me and the continued "rage", "mind games", "cheapening product", "a great product being buried", and endless speculation about the intentions and motivations of ExxonMobil are getting us nowhere nearer the actual reason.

Someone please tell me the problem with using Castrol 0W-40 - cheaper at Walmart no less.

 

[53' Stude]

There wouldn't be a problem

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I still want to see where and how it cannot meet Longlife-01 as opposed to does not meet. Where is the definitive proof that the product fails to meet the specification rather than being an administrative issue?

Nevertheless it really means next to nothing to me and the continued "rage", "mind games", "cheapening product", "a great product being buried", and endless speculation about the intentions and motivations of ExxonMobil are getting us nowhere nearer the actual reason.

Someone please tell me the problem with using Castrol 0W-40 - cheaper at Walmart no less.

First of all, there is no issue using Castrol 0W40. But oils are like politics, tell people to switch from FOX to CNN or vice versa because, it is same and you will see what happens.
As for "administrative" mistake, give me a break please. M1 does not carry LL-01 on ANY of their products now in the U.S! That is not administrative mistake. We are not talking about TATA or Hindustan, we are talking about BMW.
The fact that this formula is only sold here, and not Europe tells a lot.

 

[kschachn]

Nowhere in my post did I use the word "mistake". What I meant is that it's a timing issue with being certified, or some other administrative issue. Much like how M1 lost the API starburst post-Katrina due to a formulation change.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nowhere in my post did I use the word "mistake". What I meant is that it's a timing issue with being certified, or some other administrative issue. Much like how M1 lost the API starburst post-Katrina due to a formulation change.

I worked on certification of oil. There is no timing. Factory will provide to oil manufacturer all necessary info, whether about current specification and about potential changes.
BMW and XOM are in constant communication, as well as BMW and other big or small oil manufacturers. Also, N20 engine is on the market for 5 years, so XOM as well as other companies should anticipate that there will be a change.
Also, that administrative issue, timing etc. apparently did not happen in Europe. So XOM by not changing product in Europe is saying: yeah, we know which oil can and which cannot meet LL-01.

 

[bobbydavro]

Administration is possible. There is an approval process to follow to get products approved. BMW changed this to a new system last year.

It can take 3-6months to get an approval after submission.

The N20 engine is 5 yrs old but the engine test isn't that old. In fact it has had a few iterations between the test introduction and now. However it could be possible the whole industry is finding the test a challenge not just XOM.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
M1 does not carry LL-01 on ANY of their products now in the U.S! That is not administrative mistake.

They have one in Canada; it might only be available in bulk sizes, mind you.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Administration is possible. There is an approval process to follow to get products approved. BMW changed this to a new system last year.

It can take 3-6months to get an approval after submission.

The N20 engine is 5 yrs old but the engine test isn't that old. In fact it has had a few iterations between the test introduction and now. However it could be possible the whole industry is finding the test a challenge not just XOM.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: edyvw
M1 does not carry LL-01 on ANY of their products now in the U.S! That is not administrative mistake.

They have one in Canada; it might only be available in bulk sizes, mind you.

In Canada maybe, here in the U.S. web sites show no LL-01 product. It actually clearly says something along the lines: Mobil1 currently does not have LL-01 product available in the U.S.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Administration is possible. There is an approval process to follow to get products approved. BMW changed this to a new system last year.

It can take 3-6months to get an approval after submission.

The N20 engine is 5 yrs old but the engine test isn't that old. In fact it has had a few iterations between the test introduction and now. However it could be possible the whole industry is finding the test a challenge not just XOM.


New FS is already on the market for 6 months.
Like I said before, they just cannot meet LL-01 at this point. No administrative issues, etc.
As for other manufacturers, we will see. Pentosin just updated their products, but they carry LL-01 and LL-04 (depending on product).
Also, XOM left old version in Europe, which tells me that they anticipated this.

 

[bobbydavro]

Depends on the type of approval

You could rename the old formulation no problem and maintain BMW

 

[1JZ_E46]

It is fascinating to watch people so blindly and fervently defend XOM with nothing but speculation. The oil has been out for 6 months now with no certification; it cannot pass BMW's LL-01 standard. Plain and simple. One of the largest oil companies in the world doesn't just let this happen because of timing or administrative issues.

 

[bobbydavro]

There is more details behind my thoughts on this but it's not quite as simple as being made out. I can't really say anymore here though.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
There is more details behind my thoughts on this but it's not quite as simple as being made out. I can't really say anymore here though.


I'm sure there is more to it, but as a general consumer, the facts are the facts. The oil currently does not have LL-01 certification, and therefore (absent baseless speculation) one must make the assumption that it cannot meet LL-01.