New Mobil 1 FS 0w-40

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Originally Posted By: edyvw

All oil companies that have LL-01 are informed by BMW of change ahead of time.
VW constantly updates VW 502.00.
This is the way to keep consumers less confused then they already are.
For me there is no any excuse why M1 does not have LL-01.
They cannot meet it, as simple as that, until they meet it.


+1. I whole heartedly agree.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
All oil companies that have LL-01 are informed by BMW of change ahead of time.
VW constantly updates VW 502.00.
This is the way to keep consumers less confused then they already are.
For me there is no any excuse why M1 does not have LL-01.
They cannot meet it, as simple as that, until they meet it.


Is it worth noting that the new FS 0w40 still carries the VW 502 cert? I take it the LL-01 is the most stringent, but it does still carry VW 502 00/505 00 and PORSCHE A40.

I am running the "old" M1 0w40 in my Caliber right now, its only been 1,000 miles. I was planning on doing a UOA at 3,000 miles (probably pretty early, but as a baseline) then I have both the old and new for my next run. I will probably run the "old" for the next OCI, then I'll have two runs with the old to compare to future runs with the new. I'll admit I run M1 in most of my cars, as they usually meet my needs, and the price is usually great.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: edyvw

All oil companies that have LL-01 are informed by BMW of change ahead of time.
VW constantly updates VW 502.00.
This is the way to keep consumers less confused then they already are.
For me there is no any excuse why M1 does not have LL-01.
They cannot meet it, as simple as that, until they meet it.


+1. I whole heartedly agree.


True.
 
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: edyvw
All oil companies that have LL-01 are informed by BMW of change ahead of time.
VW constantly updates VW 502.00.
This is the way to keep consumers less confused then they already are.
For me there is no any excuse why M1 does not have LL-01.
They cannot meet it, as simple as that, until they meet it.


Is it worth noting that the new FS 0w40 still carries the VW 502 cert? I take it the LL-01 is the most stringent, but it does still carry VW 502 00/505 00 and PORSCHE A40.

I am running the "old" M1 0w40 in my Caliber right now, its only been 1,000 miles. I was planning on doing a UOA at 3,000 miles (probably pretty early, but as a baseline) then I have both the old and new for my next run. I will probably run the "old" for the next OCI, then I'll have two runs with the old to compare to future runs with the new. I'll admit I run M1 in most of my cars, as they usually meet my needs, and the price is usually great.

VW502.00 was just my example that companies constantly update their specs. Same is with Porsche A40.
However, considering status and importance of Mobil1 in the world of oil engineering I find it impossible that they did not know that BMW LL-01 will be updated with N20 engine that is already on the market for 5 years.
 
Looks like XOM are playing mind games with BMW maybe its internal politics and are using customers frustrations to drive the salt in the wound.
 
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Wow - get out the tinfoil hats please.

There are no mind games. Here is my view on what's happened to cause this apparent confusion.

XOM created a new formulation, whether its US only or for RoW too is yet to be seen, but this formulation has passed all the tests but the BMW N20 test.

This means the formulation cant claim BMW LL01 due to technical reasons.

Now on BMWs approved list they have Mobil 1 0W-40. This currently is registered on the incumbent formulation (not the new one). As there is a miss match in the spec profile. XOM had to launch a new brand name to comply with BMWs approval process.

A subtle change is to add something after the name, eg FS. The fact the text is smaller than the rest supports this notion.

There is no politics, just a new test which happened to be much harder than expected. ACEA, MB and VW get updated all of the time, however this goes on unnoticed by the public as they see no change. ACEA 2012 for example had lots of new requirements, this may have led to reformulations, however the end products would still be identical in spec coverage. You will see less scruplus companies claiming ACEA A3/B4-10, this is hiding the fact its ACEA specs are against an older version of ACEA. In any case this isn't even allowed.

The reformulation of the product may have been driven by other factors than BMW, other specification, raw materials etc etc. However this is pretty much the end game and its probably seen as a negative move internally at XOM.

The other option is they haven't got the approval yet but needed to launch a product before the approval arrived.

Porsche have also updated there approval test engine very recently.
 
Mind games, gee whiz. That sounds like the earlier post about people "raging" on a BMW site over the change.

The situation is simple. Currently M1 0W-40 does not carry Longlife-01. So if that spec matters to you then do not use it. Use something that does carry the spec, such as Castrol 0W-40 which in my case is about a whole six feet down the aisle at Walmart. If you don't want to use the Castrol product then go to NAPA or somewhere else and by a boutique oil such as Liqui Moly. Surely even in western Australia there is more than one brand that carries LL-01.

Mind games/raging .
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Now on BMWs approved list they have Mobil 1 0W-40. This currently is registered on the incumbent formulation (not the new one). As there is a miss match in the spec profile. XOM had to launch a new brand name to comply with BMWs approval process.


Is a current list available to the public?
 
Yeah, you are right it doesn't matter. It just serves to illustrate the uselessness of lists, they are never up to date. One must look at the oil container for the specifications the oil meets - which also can be out of date as this M1 "thing" shows. But at least it is something you can reference.

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
No. But it doesn't matter and BMW control it. If a brand name is on the list it must claim the spec everywhere it is sold

The list is global
 
How are the specs out of date ?! The oil met the specification when it was produced.

The new oil doesn't hence it doesn't carry the specification !!

List or no list. You need to go by what's on the product.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
How are the specs out of date ?! The oil met the specification when it was produced.

The new oil doesn't hence it doesn't carry the specification !!

List or no list. You need to go by what's on the product.


No, you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying anything about the spec itself, only the list (and the container). Like you said, lists are only as good as they are accurate.

But I went on to mention that even in this case the listing on the product container could technically be misleading, as old stock is still showing Longlife-01 when it likely does not meet the current iteration of the specification.

All I meant is that I can walk into some retailers and see M1 0W-40 with "Longlife-01" on the container yet that too can be inaccurate IRT the current spec. So not only are lists potentially inaccurate, so can be the container since I as a consumer do not know when the oil was produced nor do I know when the specification changed.

I don't even really know if Castrol meets the new spec either since they might just be slower and less proactive than ExxonMobil in relabeling their product. I don't think that's the case but it could be.
 
The line has to be drawn somewhere. Any some of the claims made could be legacy based on how the approval process works. However new formulation have to pass the new test rather than hang on the coat tails of a pass on the old test like formulations that haven't changed for a few years. New formulations can't run the old test as it doesn't exist anymore

Ultimately is BMWs spec and they manage it how they want. The industry has to react to changes and whilst this can cause challenges it's good to see Mobil have been above board with how they have done this. There is no smoke and mirrors

Fill dates will be on bottles so you get an idea of it.
 
I take "old" M1 0W40 is on the list? That is because "old" version is still sold around the world. FS is currently American "thing."
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I take "old" M1 0W40 is on the list? That is because "old" version is still sold around the world. FS is currently American "thing."


Wherever it is that The List resides.

If that's the case it illustrates why ExxonMobil had to rename the non LL-01 product here in the US.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I take "old" M1 0W40 is on the list? That is because "old" version is still sold around the world. FS is currently American "thing."


Wherever it is that The List resides.

If that's the case it illustrates why ExxonMobil had to rename the non LL-01 product here in the US.

It is the case, VISOM formula is still sold around the world.
Although some people swear in Mobil1, it is not excluded that maybe some new management is cheapening product and making buck based on "good ole days."
It would not be first time that some great product is buried because of short term gains.
 
Here is the MB list of MB229.51 oils

https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

BMW have a similar list but it's not available publicly

However this list is exactly what it says. A list of oils with approvals which you can find all over the world with the specifications. If Mobil 1 0W-40 is on the list it need to have the spec wherever it is sold.


There is no conspiracy, mind games or even 'product cheapening' from what I can see

Why is everyone so excited by VISOM too ? I'm not sure where GTL is sourced from for the Mobil 1 FS formulation but it's probably closer to the US than the UK where VISOM is made
 
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