NEW KENDALL GT-1 - 75% lower wear on SEQ IIIG

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
We will see wont we. First all the places that sell Kendel GT-1 will need to sell all the old stuff. Then we need a way of knowing what to look for on the bottle so we know we are getting the new stuff with the titanium. We also need to see if it makes much difference in the real world! I am still very happy with ZDDP and Moly with some Boron additives.......I just like more then what they put in the bottle!


I've seen new bottles of the 15W-40 with it - trust me, they are clearly marked.

Very excited to see something 'really new' come along in oil additive tech!

 

[tenderloin]

http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/brands-products/kendall_brand/titanium.aspx#/Overview

 

[Hethaerto]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
We will see wont we. First all the places that sell Kendel GT-1 will need to sell all the old stuff. Then we need a way of knowing what to look for on the bottle so we know we are getting the new stuff with the titanium. We also need to see if it makes much difference in the real world! I am still very happy with ZDDP and Moly with some Boron additives.......I just like more then what they put in the bottle!


I've seen new bottles of the 15W-40 with it - trust me, they are clearly marked.

Very excited to see something 'really new' come along in oil additive tech!



Ceramic-Metal

 

[DragRace]

The previous owner of my Explorer used nothing but Kendall oil,the motor was spotless inside and used no oil,even at 155,000 miles when I bought it.

I'd use Kendall,it's just hard to find around my area.

 

[EagleFTE]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
The previous owner of my Explorer used nothing but Kendall oil,the motor was spotless inside and used no oil,even at 155,000 miles when I bought it.

I'd use Kendall,it's just hard to find around my area.


My local Auto Zone used to carry it but it has been a while since I've inventoried their shelves. Bottles were pretty dusty last time I saw it so it was not moving well and could have been dropped. While it is not of much interest for PCMO users the GT-1 High Performance 20W50 dino now has the titanium additive and 1080 ppm Phos, 1190 ppm Zinc. The HDEO of course has a similar ZDDP content in 15W40. I'll have to check and see if the new stock has hit the shelves next time I'm at AZ and if so check the price. I think the old GT-1 was about the same as other dino name brands, $3.xx / Qt. I would expect these oils to be pretty good coming from CP.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
We will see wont we [...] We also need to see if it makes much difference in the real world!

Exactly. It's a Kendall press release which, although not baseless, is still an advertizement based on what they want you to see. Not an independent comparison against all the popular oils out there.

 

[rclint]

I have worked with Titanium as a dry lube (of all things LOL) and in a dry lube form it has many characteristics that wins out over moly. However moly has a bad habit of building up a layer, upon layer, and when heated can cause microscopic cracking, galling, and many other things I'm sure, but overall more friction. These properties are not present in an environment such as an internal combustion engine, and with a oil sump where temps pretty mild compared to well over one thousand degrees. It will be interesting, I love companies that are on the leading edge... however this is one case I think it would be wise to question everything other than what the main goal may be, which is marketing !!

 

[ThirdeYe]

Pep Boys always carries Kendall when I go there, if you have those around you. I've also seen it at Murray's (now O'Reilly's) the last few times I was at one.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well the quote also said 55% and 65% less wear compared to a competive 5w20 if iirc. Is this new formula and GT-1 their conventional or just for their synthetics and synthetic blends? I wished more places carried Kendall and CP products.


Yes, but they didn't name the oil nor what sense they're using with "competitive". To them? To the 5w-20 segment as a whole ..as in "lowball priced"??

The IIG test is a PASS:FAIL. Not all oils perform equally. That is, some oils are more equal than others in passing. 55% ..65%

It's not quoting the actual result ..just comparing it to the minimum.

None of that says that it's not a great product.

 

[buster]

Notice they didn't use the 4-ball wear test?

Take note Amsoil.

The specs look really good. Not a super long drain oil, but capable. Probably Group III based.

SeqIIG and IVA are two industry standard tests and while they are pass/fail, some oils do outperform others.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yes, but they didn't name the oil nor what sense they're using with "competitive". To them? To the 5w-20 segment as a whole ..as in "lowball priced"??

+1

...and I like Kendall just fine. I use it.
It's just being fair to read the "ad" for what it is. All companies market in the most favorable light.

 

[buster]

Seq IIIG

Cam and Lifter wear 60 um maximum.

Quote:
Kendall GT-1 5W-20 motor oil with Liquid Titanium reduced wear by 75 percent when compared to the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-4 performance requirements


75% of 60um max = 45. I guess theoretically, cam & lifter wear could be as low as 15um's.

It's amazing how good oils and their engine counterparts are these days. Engine wear has really been reduced dramatically with GF-4 oils.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Well the quote also said 55% and 65% less wear compared to a competive 5w20 if iirc. Is this new formula and GT-1 their conventional or just for their synthetics and synthetic blends? I wished more places carried Kendall and CP products.


Yes, but they didn't name the oil nor what sense they're using with "competitive". To them? To the 5w-20 segment as a whole ..as in "lowball priced"??

The IIG test is a PASS:FAIL. Not all oils perform equally. That is, some oils are more equal than others in passing. 55% ..65%

It's not quoting the actual result ..just comparing it to the minimum.

None of that says that it's not a great product.


Well my understanding is the tests are pass/fail, but also a measurement of wear is taken to determine that. My point is do any other oils claim as low wear measurement (or as high percentage of less wear that the tests standard) in the tests? 75% sounds pretty good to me and is getting close to zero wear from the test.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
My point is do any other oils claim as low wear measurement (or as high percentage of less wear that the tests standard) in the tests? 75% sounds pretty good to me and is getting close to zero wear from the test.


Until Valvoline did their "blah-blah-blah 4X lower wear than Mobil 1" ..I can't recall anyone showing or promoting their distinction in the various PASS:FAIL tests. Most of them are pretty out of whack with any sensible operational mode that I can think of. The Sequence IIIG raises the oil temp to 150C for 100hours

Using unleaded gasoline, the engine runs a 10-
minute initial oil leveling procedure followed by a
15-minute slow ramp up to speed and load
conditions. It then operates at 125 bhp, 3600
rpm, and 150°C oil temperature for 100 hours,
interrupted at 20-hour intervals for oil level
checks.


It's like the demonstration image for esters compared to PAO and conventional basestocks and showing the deposits. I think it was performed @ 250C+. They didn't show the image @ 150C.


I'm surprised that the engine manages to complete the 100hour test.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

60 microns is a lot - just under 3 mils. The seq.IVA allow 90microns AVERAGE which is ridiculous - a worn out cam - worn through the nitriding.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

I'm surprised that the engine manages to complete the 100hour test.
Sounds like my typical (yawn) weekly commute. Anybody want to do oil testing in my car?

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
60 microns is a lot - just under 3 mils. The seq.IVA allow 90microns AVERAGE which is ridiculous - a worn out cam - worn through the nitriding.


I'm not so sure. A micron is about .00004 so 60 microns is about .0024 if my math is right. That does seem like a lot of wear, but the 60 or 90 micron is the fail spec not average. I think nitriding can be as deep as .010 and well past the fail spec and even the parts wear spec. And I'm not so sure steel roller cams even require nitriding.

 

[mechanicx]

That might all be true I guess. But all I was saying is less wear in a industry standard test is still less wear. However, I think this is just one test and not a complete test of how good a particular oil is.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

I'm surprised that the engine manages to complete the 100hour test.
Sounds like my typical (yawn) weekly commute. Anybody want to do oil testing in my car?


I think you would need more road or mountain than sensibly exists in most practical terms for anyone to sustain 150C (err..that's the HTHS temp) for 100hours.

..but given your record, I can see you're trying

 

[buster]

Putting marketing aside, what is wrong with the test? What are the better alternatives?

I guess people put their faith in different places.