NEW KENDALL GT-1 - 75% lower wear on SEQ IIIG

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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

I'm surprised that the engine manages to complete the 100hour test.
Sounds like my typical (yawn) weekly commute. Anybody want to do oil testing in my car?


I think you would need more road or mountain than sensibly exists in most practical terms for anyone to sustain 150C (err..that's the HTHS temp) for 100hours.

..but given your record, I can see you're trying
grin2.gif




WOW now we know why arco's cars fail on 5w20.. he preheats the oil to 150C
 
I'll be glad when the PQIA kicks in.

Quote:
In response to what we have been hearing over the years and the strong call to action seen in the JobbersWorld survey results, Petroleum Trends Intl., with the support of other industry stakeholders, formed the Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA). The mission of PQIA is to educate and serve the consuming public by monitoring and reporting on the quality of lubricants in the marketplace. We will do so by independent testing and reporting on samples of lubricants taken from the field. The first report is expected to be completed for release to the public in December.

PQIA will publish the test data, the specific brand names, the manufacturer's names, and commentary where appropriate. All of this information will be available to the consuming public for free on the PQIA website.

We view this as an industry effort. As such, we ask stakeholders in the lubricants business (e.g. finished lubricant manufacturers, distributors, additive suppliers, base oil suppliers, and others) to contact us with your thoughts and support.

Additionally, PQIA will hold an industry trade conference and show (Quality Now) in 2010. If you have a quality topic you would like to present at the conference, please contact us by email at [email protected]

Additional information on the Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) and the Quality Now conference and trade show will available in upcoming issues of JobbersWorld.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Putting marketing aside, what is wrong with the test? What are the better alternatives?



There's nothing wrong with the test at all. Smart people figured it told them something. Passing at all is a decent testimony to what constitutes a "good oil".

..but ..how can I say this? It's sorta like someone running 50 weight in an engine spec'd for 20 weight since it provides "more protection".

This oil survived better under conditions I can't possibly duplicate in my wildest imagination over other brands.

I've never paid too much attention to "how muchmobettah" one oil passed over another.
 
Did Conoco Change the Motorcraft 5w20 synthetic blend as well?? Hope the price don't go up a lot of people i know buy motorcraft because the price is a little better in most places
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I'll be glad when the PQIA kicks in.

Quote:
In response to what we have been hearing over the years and the strong call to action seen in the JobbersWorld survey results, Petroleum Trends Intl., with the support of other industry stakeholders, formed the Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA). The mission of PQIA is to educate and serve the consuming public by monitoring and reporting on the quality of lubricants in the marketplace. We will do so by independent testing and reporting on samples of lubricants taken from the field. The first report is expected to be completed for release to the public in December.

PQIA will publish the test data, the specific brand names, the manufacturer's names, and commentary where appropriate. All of this information will be available to the consuming public for free on the PQIA website.

We view this as an industry effort. As such, we ask stakeholders in the lubricants business (e.g. finished lubricant manufacturers, distributors, additive suppliers, base oil suppliers, and others) to contact us with your thoughts and support.

Additionally, PQIA will hold an industry trade conference and show (Quality Now) in 2010. If you have a quality topic you would like to present at the conference, please contact us by email at [email protected]

Additional information on the Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) and the Quality Now conference and trade show will available in upcoming issues of JobbersWorld.


I'm surprised something like that would happen. I wonder just who is really funding this, the automakers and suppliers? This is mere rank speculation, but I have been getting the sense that the oil companies might have disenchanted the automakers and the automakers aren't so cozy to the oil companies as they might use to be.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
60 microns is a lot - just under 3 mils. The seq.IVA allow 90microns AVERAGE which is ridiculous - a worn out cam - worn through the nitriding.

FWIW, the 60 micron is average cam plus lifter wear.
 
ASTM D6891 is 90microns(3.54mils)average Cam wear. The average is what bothers me without a max given - too much wiggle room. This is the "Cold" test on OHC inverted bucket typ cams (NISSAN Mockup). -
- Buster that PQIA sound interesting - and I too am curious what spurred this. More info for BITOG!
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: buster
Putting marketing aside, what is wrong with the test? What are the better alternatives?




This oil survived better under conditions I can't possibly duplicate in my wildest imagination over other brands.




How about when tracking the car..My oil temps are in 270-280F range when I am on the track and the engine puts out 260HP operating in 3000-7000 rpm range.

Time duration is shorter but conditions are more severe.
 
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60 micron= 2.36 mil (that's far enough) so that's .0023" and that's very very little, I don't think that will penetrate the nitride... however I did not look up the industry specs, I'm sure they vary, and that there will be a specific spec for cams I didn't know they were coated, nor treated I assumed they were hardened, then ground to tolerance. Mind you that .0023" is very small, and would have to be in a controlled climate as change in temp would skew it, just the heat from your hand would change it..
 
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You better be running a race oil. Redline comes to mind. Where do you monitor that high an oil temp? - U may want to look into a cooler.


been running GC without any problems and switched to redline 5w-30 my last oil change
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
ASTM D6891 is 90microns(3.54mils)average Cam wear.

I thought you were referring to ILSAC GF4 Sequence IIIG...sorry.
 
Another interesting question is how and why CP obtained this from Afton?
 
Originally Posted By: rclint
60 micron= 2.36 mil (that's far enough) so that's .0023" Mind you that .0023" is very small, and would have to be in a controlled climate as change in temp would skew it, just the heat from your hand would change it..
2.3 mils is a mile in metrology and machining of precision parts. A "loose" machined bilateral tolerance is +/- .002". Most Journals are spec'd tighter than 1 mil. IDK what the typ nitriding depth on a flat tappet cam is (and expect induction hardening to be deeper on average) but the VW cam driven pump followers have been wearing through in under 20K. The main issue is once you get galling on a wear surface, the surface/lobe will degrade and fail rather quickly thereafter.
 
Originally Posted By: rclint
Mind you that .0023" is very small, and would have to be in a controlled climate as change in temp would skew it, just the heat from your hand would change it..
Not true. Thermal coefficient of typ steel is ~0.000006 of an inch per inch per degree, so a 20 degree F delta by human handling (say 75 >95degf) would affect a dimensional change in a 2.0000"L part by .00024" or approx 10% of tol which is an acceptable measurement precision error for a 2 mil bilateral tolerance. Now, the copper plumbing on your hydronic heating system - thats a diff story - given that Cu material expands more than St and the ave. pipe length involved exposes the reason for all the racket when the heat cycles.
 
ARCO

I don't want to argue with you over metallurgy on a oil site (worse has been done though) however I know they do hold a tight tolerance on the cams, and the tolerance is not just +/- it's the complete radii of the lobe, etc, and the type of machining of the cam (surface type grinder) can produce extremely high precision. I have worked with all types of metals, and if you will trust the hands on experience .. the heat off your hand would skew the results, the oil film alone will change the measurement by .001"
 
Agreed the lobe lift and ramp profile would be little affected by a 2 mil wear (given a typ .43 lift). I just worry about that much galling of the hardened surface that would lead to accelerated wear. I dont know how 1 or 2 molecules thick of an oil film would add up to 1mil, plus when your mic'ing or indicating its not a captured area, the oil can flow away from the measurement point. When working as a metrologist, Ive done literally tens of thousands of precision measurements.
 
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