New Fiat/Chrysler 500 will cost $15,500

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Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Yea, I wish Mahindra diesel were sold here.


I was told earlier this month that they're looking at Spring 2011. They've already received EPA certification, and are just waiting on NHTSA.


that crude truck will cost as much as a full size. no reason to buy one.
 
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Yea, I wish Mahindra diesel were sold here.


I was told earlier this month that they're looking at Spring 2011. They've already received EPA certification, and are just waiting on NHTSA.


From what I hear, they may take quite a while longer to get over here. At this point the dealer network and their reps and Mahindra are fighting in court back and forth.


http://www.freep.com/article/20101113/BU...S.-anytime-soon
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Yea, I wish Mahindra diesel were sold here.


I was told earlier this month that they're looking at Spring 2011. They've already received EPA certification, and are just waiting on NHTSA.


From what I hear, they may take quite a while longer to get over here. At this point the dealer network and their reps and Mahindra are fighting in court back and forth.


http://www.freep.com/article/20101113/BU...S.-anytime-soon


it's all smoke and mirrors. find a rust free truck from the 80s and rust proof it and rebuild it if that's what you want.
I think the new F150 with v-6 and ecoboost makes this truck irrevalent.
 
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Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Anyone else notice that the "Prima Edizione" model pre-order has already sold out?


Dealer stock orders.

Sorry, but you're wrong. The specially numbered series of cars had to be reserved by individuals, with a deposit.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Yea, I wish Mahindra diesel were sold here.


I was told earlier this month that they're looking at Spring 2011. They've already received EPA certification, and are just waiting on NHTSA.


From what I hear, they may take quite a while longer to get over here. At this point the dealer network and their reps and Mahindra are fighting in court back and forth.


http://www.freep.com/article/20101113/BU...S.-anytime-soon


it's all smoke and mirrors. find a rust free truck from the 80s and rust proof it and rebuild it if that's what you want.
I think the new F150 with v-6 and ecoboost makes this truck irrevalent.


Why do so many assume that everyone who buys a compact or mid-size pickup really wants a full-size one? People who say there is no market (or reason) for the Mahindra are just like those (if not the same ones) who said the introduction of the Toyota Hilux, and its Datsun and Mazda competitors, to North America was pointless. The comments made here, and elsewhere, could be a "cut and paste job" of what was said way back then.

Anyone care to remind me just who is the clear market leader in the compact and mid-size truck market? Yeah, it's the guys who "didn't need to waste their time" introducing the Hilux. Sales of over 144K Tacomas in the US during 2008 tend to indicate the naysayers were wrong, don't you think?

My family are proud former owners of an original Hilux, BTW. Oh, and we never wished it had really been an F-Series, D-Series or C10, believe it or not...
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Why do so many assume that everyone who buys a compact or mid-size pickup really wants a full-size one? People who say there is no market (or reason) for the Mahindra are just like those (if not the same ones) who said the introduction of the Toyota Hilux, and its Datsun and Mazda competitors, to North America was pointless. The comments made here, and elsewhere, could be a "cut and paste job" of what was said way back then.

Anyone care to remind me just who is the clear market leader in the compact and mid-size truck market? Yeah, it's the guys who "didn't need to waste their time" introducing the Hilux. Sales of over 144K Tacomas in the US during 2008 tend to indicate the naysayers were wrong, don't you think?

My family are proud former owners of an original Hilux, BTW. Oh, and we never wished it had really been an F-Series, D-Series or C10, believe it or not...
wink.gif



My parent's bought an early Ford Courier. (Toyo Kogyo/ Mazda product) It was only a couple hundred bucks less than an F-100. The only time I can remember thinking an F-100 would have been better was on the rare occasion that my sister and I had to ride in it at the same time A wider bench would have been nice. Otherwise it was fairly bullet proof and sailed through the many energy crises of the '70s.

Mahindra is really losing an opportunity here with all the delivery fleets by not moving into the market more aggressively.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
My parent's bought an early Ford Courier. (Toyo Kogyo/ Mazda product) It was only a couple hundred bucks less than an F-100. The only time I can remember thinking an F-100 would have been better was on the rare occasion that my sister and I had to ride in it at the same time A wider bench would have been nice. Otherwise it was fairly bullet proof and sailed through the many energy crises of the '70s.

Mahindra is really losing an opportunity here with all the delivery fleets by not moving into the market more aggressively.

Personally, I'd like to get my hands on a Mazda REPU. Gawd, that'd be a blast!!!

Agreed on Mahindra. I believe that as corporate has got closer to bringing the trucks to market in North America, the more they're wishing they'd kept the project in-house. I've always wondered why they didn't just use their tractor business, and its dealers, to introduce the vehicles. Its a customer base that is already happy with the brand, and its quality.
 
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Sales of over 144K Tacomas in the US during 2008 tend to indicate the naysayers were wrong, don't you think?

My family are proud former owners of an original Hilux, BTW. Oh, and we never wished it had really been an F-Series, D-Series or C10, believe it or not...
wink.gif



A tacoma is bigger than a ranger and not much smaller than a full size. I like S-10 and rangers. Believe it or not you can even get a colorado with a V8 in it now. there comes a time when you have to admit a full size makes more sense new when there's no mileage or cost difference. next dinosaur?
reg cab.
less than 7 percent of new trucks are reg cab now.

it would be cheaper to buy an older small toyota t100 and rebuild it. if that's your ideal.
 
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Originally Posted By: FXjohn
A tacoma is bigger than a ranger and not much smaller than a full size. I like S-10 and rangers. Believe it or not you can even get a colorado with a V8 in it now. there comes a time when you have to admit a full size makes more sense new when there's no mileage or cost difference. next dinosaur?
reg cab.
less than 7 percent of new trucks are reg cab now.

it would be cheaper to buy an older small toyota t100 and rebuild it. if that's your ideal.

It's true that there isn't a massive size difference between a Tacoma and a Tundra. But there is still a significant market for the Tacoma. Why? Because bigger isn't automatically better. Ever tried to get a 7.5ft wide truck through a 7ft gap? It doesn't work too well, at least not after you've done it...
grin.gif


I wish that Ford would introduce the RoW Ranger in North America. I think that they'd be surprised by the public acceptance. It is a far better truck than what we've been stuck with. The NA Ranger doesn't make the kind of sales numbers that Ford wants because the truck is simply outclassed by the competition, not because no-one wants a compact Ford pickup. The compact pickups are competitive in Latin America, despite the fact that people can also buy full-size models in those markets.

The GM mid-size trucks have also fallen behind the competition. They're not saddled with as old a structure as the Ranger, but it's not a whole lot better. At first, GM failed to get competitive numbers out of the Atlas L4 and L5 engines, leaving them short in the power wars. Then, to compensate, they installed the V8. In my estimation they would have been better served by going with the Atlas L6 which should have provided an advantage in power, without the payload penalty of the V8. But, in the end, it was all moot as the trucks had already fallen behind in other ways.

The problem the domestics have is that they fail to take the compact and mid-size market seriously. But I believe they do this deliberately, in hopes that once a potential customer sees what their offerings are like, they will automatically default to their full-size products. I think this is an error on their part. Some may be swayed to something bigger with the same badge, but most people shop a segment and not a brand.

Rarely have I found that a marques' similarly equipped full-size truck is the same price as its compact or mid-sized sister. Sure, you can find a full-size at the same price as a compact or mid-sized pickup. But who compares a compact or mid-sized truck loaded with all the goodies with a stripped down full-size one? Answer: NOBODY.

The death of the regular cab has been predicted before, but it all depends on the target market of the truck. Dodge realized that the Dakota customer base had no interest in the regular cab and thus the 3rd generation wasn't designed with one. Nissan saw the same thing in the market for both of their pickups. However, there is a steady demand for regular cabs in both the commercial work truck and cab-chassis markets. There are a number of issues that can complicate installing a given body on a cab-chassis with longer BBC and shorter CA measurements. You can't just switch from using a regular cab, to an extended or crew-cab. While 7% seems like a miniscule number, do the math on just how many regular cab units that works out to in real numbers. It's not as small a market as it might seem...
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
the new reg cab reg bed is the new mini truck

also food for thought

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2010-v-6-work-truck-shootout.html

those are the new minis.

If I bought the Ford, I'm looking at $28,190 (including delivery) for a regular cab, 2WD, short-bed with an automatic transmission. It can carry three, tow 5.5K pounds and haul 1.7K. It is equipped with a cloth 40/20/40 seat, power windows, power door locks, power mirrors, AM/FM/CD-player, hands-free phone, cruise control and keyless entry.

Meanwhile, I can buy a Toyota Tacoma for just $27,249 (including delivery) that is a crew cab, 2WD, short-bed with an automatic transmission. It can carry five, tow 6.4K pounds and haul 1.4K. It is equipped with cloth front bucket and 60/40 rear bench seats, power windows, power door locks, power mirrors, AM/FM/CD-player, hands-free phone, cruise control and keyless entry.

Having spec'd these trucks to be virtually identically equipped, I can see your point. Well, other than the additional seating for three, the extra 900lbs towing capacity, the nearly $1K lower price, the full carpeting, center console storage, overhead console, rear-wall storage, integrated back-up camera and leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter in the Tacoma. But hey, the F-150 can carry an extra 300lbs...
 
No thanks.I am well done with small cars. (88 Jetta GLI>95 Honda Civic>04 Subaru WRX).
 
Originally Posted By: rshunter
The GM mid-size trucks have also fallen behind the competition. They're not saddled with as old a structure as the Ranger, but it's not a whole lot better. At first, GM failed to get competitive numbers out of the Atlas L4 and L5 engines, leaving them short in the power wars. Then, to compensate, they installed the V8. In my estimation they would have been better served by going with the Atlas L6 which should have provided an advantage in power, without the payload penalty of the V8. But, in the end, it was all moot as the trucks had already fallen behind in other ways.


I never understood why they didn't use the Trailblazer/Envoy's L6. Is the L5 really that much cheaper to produce? Surely the L6 would be able to produce mpg figures consistant with the Ranger/Explorer Sport-Trac's 4.0 V6.

The MPG in L4 and L5 models are a little disappointing. Seems like they might have done a bit better by using the Ecotec 2.4. If the Frontier/Equator can get by with a 2.5l I think the smaller Colorado/Canyon could have done okay with a 2.4

At least the Colorado/Canyon has the leg-room of an older Isuzu pick-up. The S10s were always a little short.
 
Hey guys. Please keep it on subject (which it has not been for many posts)

New Fiat/Chrysler 500 from now on!

Thanks, Bill
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Hey guys. Please keep it on subject (which it has not been for many posts)

New Fiat/Chrysler 500 from now on!

Thanks, Bill


Ha ha ha!!!

You mean that this thread was started about a car?

Wow...
 
What will be interesting about this car is whether it ends up positioned against the Mini, that did extremely well, or against the Smart, which hasn't been as successful.

The Mini had the original Mini as a prototype that had lots of fond memories attached. The Smart was a completely new concept and so is the 500. With no familiarity going for it, I'm guessing selling the 500 to the North American consumer will be a tough slog.
 
Originally Posted By: jaj
What will be interesting about this car is whether it ends up positioned against the Mini, that did extremely well, or against the Smart, which hasn't been as successful.

The Mini had the original Mini as a prototype that had lots of fond memories attached. The Smart was a completely new concept and so is the 500. With no familiarity going for it, I'm guessing selling the 500 to the North American consumer will be a tough slog.

Every indication is that FIAT is aiming straight at the Mini. The future introduction of the Abarth variant only reinforces that. Most Americans had never seen or experienced an original Mini, so I'd discount the idea that the new Mini had any real advantage over the new Cinquecento.

I don't think anyone is considering a model to compete against the Smart. There is a pretty good reason for it, too. Electric cars, like Mitsubishi's soon to be introduced i-Miev, do everything better than the Smart in the intended usage pattern for these vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: cbear
Originally Posted By: jaj
The Smart was a completely new concept and so is the 500.

Actually Fiat made a 500 for years, and is in fact playing off it's European fame to promote the current version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_500


Sorry, you're right - the 500 has been a classic for a long time. It's just that the last time I drove a Fiat, it was a 1973 128, a couple of years before Fiat abandoned the North American market. The 500 never came to North America, and it has no history here. The Mini does. I rode in an original Mini in 1984 in Toronto - it made the trek from the UK. The Fiat was by far the nicer car, but the Mini had more panache.
 
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