The Camry maintenance required light will come on every 5k miles. Rotations and fluid level inspections every 5k miles with oil changes every 10k/year whichever comes first. If you have a decent filter or an oem one you could just leave that on and drain and fill the oil. Menards has FVP synthetic made by Warren for three bucks a quart or ST oil at Walmart for fifteen bucks a jug.
New Engines and Oil Life Monitors
- Thread starter Gene K
- Start date
Changing oil every 5,000 miles without taking into account the driving conditions/time doesn't seem very smart to me.
5,000 miles of steady highway driving [vacation-road trip] vs short drives to the store/work during winter conditions are just not the same.
A good OLM, although not perfect, takes into account these changing driving styles. What's not to like? If you think the OLM is optimistic, change oil before it reaches zero.
The worst problem with OLMs is the name. Less and less people are savvy with auto maintenance and they expect appliance like reliability and new age idiot lights to tell them everything. OLM is often interpreted as oil level meter.
Few check the oil level believing a light should tell them to do so. This often results in engine damage.
I wish all my cars had a well programmed OLM.
5,000 miles of steady highway driving [vacation-road trip] vs short drives to the store/work during winter conditions are just not the same.
A good OLM, although not perfect, takes into account these changing driving styles. What's not to like? If you think the OLM is optimistic, change oil before it reaches zero.
The worst problem with OLMs is the name. Less and less people are savvy with auto maintenance and they expect appliance like reliability and new age idiot lights to tell them everything. OLM is often interpreted as oil level meter.
Few check the oil level believing a light should tell them to do so. This often results in engine damage.
I wish all my cars had a well programmed OLM.
Originally Posted by WobblyElvis
Changing oil every 5,000 miles without taking into account the driving conditions/time doesn't seem very smart to me.
5,000 miles of steady highway driving [vacation-road trip] vs short drives to the store/work during winter conditions are just not the same.
A good OLM, although not perfect, takes into account these changing driving styles. What's not to like? If you think the OLM is optimistic, change oil before it reaches zero.
The worst problem with OLMs is the name. Less and less people are savvy with auto maintenance and they expect appliance like reliability and new age idiot lights to tell them everything. OLM is often interpreted as oil level meter.
Few check the oil level believing a light should tell them to do so. This often results in engine damage.
I wish all my cars had a well programmed OLM.
I've been surprised that the OEM's just don't put in an oil level monitor. I know some cars do have it, but some (many? most?) don't. Yet the same OEM's will tell you that a quart per 1,500 miles is fine--but it's ok to change every 10k? that you expect an owner of a brand new car to check the oil at every fuel fillup?
It would probably cost a buck fifty to add a sensor to every car. I get it, there still would be some number of customers upset that their car is asking for oil, but I'm guessing it'd save money (for the OEM) inside of the warranty period. Might even somehow be used to establish better for the OEM just what the oil consumption rate is, if it logged oil levels at every start. [Yes that takes memory and might make it cost more than just a sensor. But. OEM's are big on doing things that save them money in the long run. Might an oil level sensor do just that?]
Changing oil every 5,000 miles without taking into account the driving conditions/time doesn't seem very smart to me.
5,000 miles of steady highway driving [vacation-road trip] vs short drives to the store/work during winter conditions are just not the same.
A good OLM, although not perfect, takes into account these changing driving styles. What's not to like? If you think the OLM is optimistic, change oil before it reaches zero.
The worst problem with OLMs is the name. Less and less people are savvy with auto maintenance and they expect appliance like reliability and new age idiot lights to tell them everything. OLM is often interpreted as oil level meter.
Few check the oil level believing a light should tell them to do so. This often results in engine damage.
I wish all my cars had a well programmed OLM.
I've been surprised that the OEM's just don't put in an oil level monitor. I know some cars do have it, but some (many? most?) don't. Yet the same OEM's will tell you that a quart per 1,500 miles is fine--but it's ok to change every 10k? that you expect an owner of a brand new car to check the oil at every fuel fillup?
It would probably cost a buck fifty to add a sensor to every car. I get it, there still would be some number of customers upset that their car is asking for oil, but I'm guessing it'd save money (for the OEM) inside of the warranty period. Might even somehow be used to establish better for the OEM just what the oil consumption rate is, if it logged oil levels at every start. [Yes that takes memory and might make it cost more than just a sensor. But. OEM's are big on doing things that save them money in the long run. Might an oil level sensor do just that?]
....another OLM story.
I have a close friend that runs "emergency parts" for a big industrial parts supplier. Pat's 2016 2.7 EcoBoost F150 has had a steady diet of Motorcraft semi/syn during it's 350,000 plus mile life. It gets it's change when the OLM monitor tells him to get it changed, which has been every 10,000 miles.
I have a close friend that runs "emergency parts" for a big industrial parts supplier. Pat's 2016 2.7 EcoBoost F150 has had a steady diet of Motorcraft semi/syn during it's 350,000 plus mile life. It gets it's change when the OLM monitor tells him to get it changed, which has been every 10,000 miles.
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Originally Posted by TrainingPolicy
I was reading through your post and I saw you listed the MPG's of vehicle? Does MPG's some how affect oil life? I am not being rude, I just have never see it included before and I am curious as to if it bears any significance?
Studies by manufacturers of both light and heavy engines have concluded fuel consumed is a much more accurate predictor of oil degradation than miles.
You can prove this yourself by running oil analysis on the following a scenarios.
1. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 10,000 mi.
2. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 5,000 mi.
3. 10 mpg average (Towing) for 5,000 mi.
1 and 3 will more closely correlate when you run analysis. Double the miles but the same amount of fuel consumed.
I was reading through your post and I saw you listed the MPG's of vehicle? Does MPG's some how affect oil life? I am not being rude, I just have never see it included before and I am curious as to if it bears any significance?
Studies by manufacturers of both light and heavy engines have concluded fuel consumed is a much more accurate predictor of oil degradation than miles.
You can prove this yourself by running oil analysis on the following a scenarios.
1. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 10,000 mi.
2. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 5,000 mi.
3. 10 mpg average (Towing) for 5,000 mi.
1 and 3 will more closely correlate when you run analysis. Double the miles but the same amount of fuel consumed.
Originally Posted by DavidJones
....another OLM story.
I have a close friend that runs "emergency parts" for a big industrial parts supplier. Pat's 2016 2.7 EcoBoost F150 has had a steady diet of Motorcraft semi/syn during it's 350,000 plus mile life. It gets it's change when the OLM monitor tells him to get it changed, which has been every 10,000 miles.
I'm familiar. Isn't he like 380,000 mi now?
I've found the 2.7EB to be easier on oil than the 3.5EB. I've also heard Pat's miles described as "Toyota miles".
This is something some of us question. Pat likely averages 24+ mpg and yet a 3.5EB 4x4 with the same sump size averging 50% more fuel use calls for the same 10,000 mi change often enough. Why not 15,000 mi in Pat's Truck or 7,000 mi in that 3.5EB?
....another OLM story.
I have a close friend that runs "emergency parts" for a big industrial parts supplier. Pat's 2016 2.7 EcoBoost F150 has had a steady diet of Motorcraft semi/syn during it's 350,000 plus mile life. It gets it's change when the OLM monitor tells him to get it changed, which has been every 10,000 miles.
I'm familiar. Isn't he like 380,000 mi now?
I've found the 2.7EB to be easier on oil than the 3.5EB. I've also heard Pat's miles described as "Toyota miles".
This is something some of us question. Pat likely averages 24+ mpg and yet a 3.5EB 4x4 with the same sump size averging 50% more fuel use calls for the same 10,000 mi change often enough. Why not 15,000 mi in Pat's Truck or 7,000 mi in that 3.5EB?
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by TrainingPolicy
I was reading through your post and I saw you listed the MPG's of vehicle? Does MPG's some how affect oil life? I am not being rude, I just have never see it included before and I am curious as to if it bears any significance?
The OLM is actually reading fuel used which is one of many parameters that effects it's readings.
Wow, I did not know that. But, not that you say it, it does make sense. Im guessing its using the fuel consumption to judge the # of miles its traveled and the type of condition its in?
Originally Posted by TrainingPolicy
I was reading through your post and I saw you listed the MPG's of vehicle? Does MPG's some how affect oil life? I am not being rude, I just have never see it included before and I am curious as to if it bears any significance?
The OLM is actually reading fuel used which is one of many parameters that effects it's readings.
Wow, I did not know that. But, not that you say it, it does make sense. Im guessing its using the fuel consumption to judge the # of miles its traveled and the type of condition its in?
Originally Posted by Gene K
Originally Posted by TrainingPolicy
I was reading through your post and I saw you listed the MPG's of vehicle? Does MPG's some how affect oil life? I am not being rude, I just have never see it included before and I am curious as to if it bears any significance?
Studies by manufacturers of both light and heavy engines have concluded fuel consumed is a much more accurate predictor of oil degradation than miles.
You can prove this yourself by running oil analysis on the following a scenarios.
1. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 10,000 mi.
2. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 5,000 mi.
3. 10 mpg average (Towing) for 5,000 mi.
1 and 3 will more closely correlate when you run analysis. Double the miles but the same amount of fuel consumed.
So why is it 20 MPG's for both 5k and 10k miles?
Originally Posted by TrainingPolicy
I was reading through your post and I saw you listed the MPG's of vehicle? Does MPG's some how affect oil life? I am not being rude, I just have never see it included before and I am curious as to if it bears any significance?
Studies by manufacturers of both light and heavy engines have concluded fuel consumed is a much more accurate predictor of oil degradation than miles.
You can prove this yourself by running oil analysis on the following a scenarios.
1. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 10,000 mi.
2. 20 mpg average (Unladen) for 5,000 mi.
3. 10 mpg average (Towing) for 5,000 mi.
1 and 3 will more closely correlate when you run analysis. Double the miles but the same amount of fuel consumed.
So why is it 20 MPG's for both 5k and 10k miles?
I am still trying to figure out how the olm works in mine. I installed a hour meter in November with oil change and 82 hours with 1500 miles. All oil changes have been between 3500 and 4500 miles with no reminder. Manual states 350 hours or 10k max which averages at 35 mph. I will see if once a year is possible as I averaged 6500 a year over last 2 years.
I really cannot comment on Ford's OLM system, (I simply don't know much about them) but reading about chattering valve solenoids, chain wear, replace(!) engine conclusions where lubrication comes into question? My opinion is to simply ignore any reminder and just spill and fill with a fresh filter every 5k with any decent full synthetic.
I've read here and there about GM's OLM and actually have faith in it. But only after confirming that your vehicle has had the latest firmware flash. Some were very optimistic in the beginning and there are plenty of internet horror stories of scores of GM 3.6 GDI timing chains and valve actuators doing themselves in far too early. But those are internet stories, consume at your own risk and with a deer sized salt block.
The '13 LTZ Flex fuel 3.5 GM V-6 I look after got a firmware flash update when I replaced a failed FSM that needed a factory calibration to operate properly. The OLM got really snarky. It conceivably *wants* 7500 miles on a Dexos 1 5w-30. But the "penalty" system the computer runs as it counts each revolution of the engine, start and ambient temperature, engine temperature, fuel quantity and fuel alcohol content...geeks off a 6qt. fill at the end of 5k miles. It kills it quicker than that if it's a cold season and you short trip it without sustained full-hot engine temperatures. If it sits on a battery maintainer... she'll tick down a freshly reset OLM on fresh oil at the end of a calender year.
It's the pretty much same story on my '03 Silverado SS running a 6 liter LQ9. It really wants to run about 7k miles between changes... but spirited fun on weekends or hauling things for friends will drop a sump to under 10% life in the cold weather in just a hair under 4.8k miles. It's apparently time sensitive too, she shed 2% sitting there in pieces in the driveway up on ramps waiting for parts to arrive.
Running time, temperatures and fuel consumption I can understand. Is the time factor simply accounting for any oil degradation that may occur with simple exposure to atmosphere?
I also do not think that the OLM accounts for induction or fueling faults. Bad or leaky intake seals, poor filtration, leaky injectors can "poison" a sump of oil quick! But the OLM will merely apply its mathematical model and carry on. About the only time a GM OLM will immediately condemn a sump fill is when it logs an engine over- temperature situation. So you know, change oil. Get new head gaskets. Deck and mill your heads...
I've read here and there about GM's OLM and actually have faith in it. But only after confirming that your vehicle has had the latest firmware flash. Some were very optimistic in the beginning and there are plenty of internet horror stories of scores of GM 3.6 GDI timing chains and valve actuators doing themselves in far too early. But those are internet stories, consume at your own risk and with a deer sized salt block.
The '13 LTZ Flex fuel 3.5 GM V-6 I look after got a firmware flash update when I replaced a failed FSM that needed a factory calibration to operate properly. The OLM got really snarky. It conceivably *wants* 7500 miles on a Dexos 1 5w-30. But the "penalty" system the computer runs as it counts each revolution of the engine, start and ambient temperature, engine temperature, fuel quantity and fuel alcohol content...geeks off a 6qt. fill at the end of 5k miles. It kills it quicker than that if it's a cold season and you short trip it without sustained full-hot engine temperatures. If it sits on a battery maintainer... she'll tick down a freshly reset OLM on fresh oil at the end of a calender year.
It's the pretty much same story on my '03 Silverado SS running a 6 liter LQ9. It really wants to run about 7k miles between changes... but spirited fun on weekends or hauling things for friends will drop a sump to under 10% life in the cold weather in just a hair under 4.8k miles. It's apparently time sensitive too, she shed 2% sitting there in pieces in the driveway up on ramps waiting for parts to arrive.
Running time, temperatures and fuel consumption I can understand. Is the time factor simply accounting for any oil degradation that may occur with simple exposure to atmosphere?
I also do not think that the OLM accounts for induction or fueling faults. Bad or leaky intake seals, poor filtration, leaky injectors can "poison" a sump of oil quick! But the OLM will merely apply its mathematical model and carry on. About the only time a GM OLM will immediately condemn a sump fill is when it logs an engine over- temperature situation. So you know, change oil. Get new head gaskets. Deck and mill your heads...
I still believe and have data to back it up that my OLM is totally useless. As a result I would never trust one on blind faith. If I were inclined to use one, I would first establish what I think is a safe OCI, change the oil and get a UOA. Then see how long the OLM takes to trip. I know enough people to send the UOA off to for their assessment, and opnion of how long my oil could have safely gone. If the OLM came up with a safe OCI I might trust it, tweak it, or follow the OCI based on the data in hand.
I've got one boot in your camp too. The GM V-6 got very conservative after the software update. The V-8 LQ-9 came with a manual that recommends (at the time) pretty much a Corvette spec full synthetic oil fill with footnotes. Though it reads as, "Follow the OLM", the footnotes read that if you severe duty or race it, 6k mile oil changes and time limit of one year are the main idea.
To me, it reads, "We have a good idea of what we're doing, but change it often, on time with this grade of materials anyway..." It's a work in progress.
It's a work in progress, you nailed it. I recall often reading here years ago when OLMs weren't nearly as good as they are now, imo they're still hit or miss, many people thought they were great then. Then GM rolls out a flash to shorten the interval, others tweaked them as welI. I guess they discovered the OCI was too long. Imagine a car lover following that wondering what damage he/she might have caused following it. Especially someone suffering from OCD. lol I know it would drive me nuts. These things are constantly evolving, still. For about $10-$15 I can have data telling me what the best OCI is, and not rely on an algorithm that might be problematic, or later found to be problematic. If I had a lease car, or sold mine every few years I wouldn't care. However that's not the case for me. I'm going to stick with what I found is best.I've got one boot in your camp too. The GM V-6 got very conservative after the software update. The V-8 LQ-9 came with a manual that recommends (at the time) pretty much a Corvette spec full synthetic oil fill with footnotes. Though it reads as, "Follow the OLM", the footnotes read that if you severe duty or race it, 6k mile oil changes and time limit of one year are the main idea.
To me, it reads, "We have a good idea of what we're doing, but change it often, on time with this grade of materials anyway..." It's a work in progress.
I think you are a rare breed. Assuming from your previous posts, you went the extra step and *actually* had analysis done. That's great for one salient reason:
It will catch things that no OLM will ever monitor for. They're not some electro-chemical-mecha-optical-clarity-conductive gizmo. It's an egg timer that slips ahead a little bit if your driving conditions aren't 100% laboratory bench perfect.
It cannot account for oil grade, type, fuel composition and just plain old in the wild conditions and physics. It cannot account for engine variances, filtration schemes and failure modes of the engine itself. (Bad PCV, a little too much water in the fuel, oil-coolant contamination from failed gaskets/ seals/heat exchangers)
Best weapons you've got is diligent maintenence, inspection and follow your gut feelings and service often and timely. If you have the resources? Analysis will go miles to filing in the blanks and spot things you can't see. Barring all that, stick to quality materials and honestly... .>...
I don't know any engine, great or small that suffered from keeping filters, fluid and oil fresh and clean. None. What takes them away each time? Neglect. But now I'm preaching to the choir, I just realized where I am.
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Years ago I wasn't much of a UOA fan boy, but I did see it had some value and thought it was worth a shot. Reading here many people discovered they had issues after a UOA, fuel dilution, coolant in the oil, poor filtration, an OCI too long, or too short, etc. Fortunately I had no mechanical issues, and landed on a good OCI as a result. I had a feeling my OLM was suspect, my hunch was right. Lucky guess, or common sense, pick one. I think years of car ownership and common sense sparked me to get a UOA, and proved what I thought all along regarding my OLM. It was money very well spent in my case. Now I recommend enthusiasts or people who care about their cars to invest a few dollars and get one from time to time.I think you are a rare breed. Assuming from your previous posts, you went the extra step and *actually* had analysis done. That's great for one salient reason:
It will catch things that no OLM will ever monitor for. They're not some electro-chemical-mecha-optical-clarity-conductive gizmo. It's an egg timer that slips ahead a little bit if your driving conditions aren't 100% laboratory bench perfect.
It cannot account for oil grade, type, fuel composition and just plain old in the wild conditions and physics. It cannot account for engine variances, filtration schemes and failure modes of the engine itself. (Bad PCV, a little too much water in the fuel, oil-coolant contamination from failed gaskets/ seals/heat exchangers)
Best weapons you've got is diligent maintenence, inspection and follow your gut feelings and service often and timely. If you have the resources? Analysis will go miles to filing in the blanks and spot things you can't see. Barring all that, stick to quality materials and honestly... .>...
I don't know any engine, great or small that suffered from keeping filters, fluid and oil fresh and clean. None. What takes them away reach time? Neglect. But now I'm preaching to the choir, I just realized where I am.
A very drunk, but wise old friend of mine used to say that, "Luck? Pfffft. No such thing as luck. Luck is the residue of skill."
A very wise drunk!
My Titan has a 5k oil change reminder . As long as it's in warranty I'm going to go by that .
None on mine either -- just the service interval counter. Oil + OEM filter change @ 5K miles is the target.