New Diesel oil

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WV
Visited my Indie MB/BMW shop the other day and he had a Mobil 1 0-30 ESP oil on the shelf. He said it was replacing the 5-40 ESP for my diesel MB. It had a MB 229.52 rating that supercedes all the others. It had a BMW long life rating and a diesel rating. Interestingly it came in Ltr. bottles not qts. He gets it from a MB dealer and they were the ones who told him because he ordered 5w-40esp. This is the same guy who reported sludging in gas engines using the ESP oils. Mobil sent 3 guys to visit him as he was reporting it on a mechanics forum that he moderates. They denied there was a problem but notified all MB dealers not to use ESP oils in gas engines. Mechanic thinks the acids in the alcohol react with something in the ESP oil to cause them to sludge within a normal oci. Some dealers were using the ESP oil in all there MB's to save confusion among the mechanics. The bottle states that it's good for gas engines.
 

loneryder

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1,410
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WV
That is what it says on the bottle too. The guy has all the internal communications from MB discussing it and informing the dealers not to use it in the gas engines. He thought they were really concerned about being responsible for all the engine sludging. Wanted to avoid that.
 
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10,912
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
ESP has low SAPS, & therefore low TBN. In diesel engines using ULSD, and in Euro gas engines running low sulfur gasoline, it would be a good choice-but I wouldn't run it in a gas engine using our higher sulfur gasoline, the acids created in combustion would be trouble. Why wasn't the guy using/selling the CHEAPER regular M1?
 

loneryder

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WV
That makes sense. He ordered the 5-40ESP for his diesel customers and that is what the dealer sent him...0-30. Said that is what MB was switching to.
 
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2,945
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Georgia/Retired
Mobil has discontinued the ESP 5W-40 in favor of the ESP 0W-30. If you want the 5W-40 you'll have to find old stock and stock up. It has been common knowledge that the ESP oils have not been recommended for use in gasoline fueled vehicles in North America. VW doesn't approve 504.00, BMW doesn't approve LL-04, and it's likely that MB has also followed suit. The increased oxidation is what leads to the formation of sludge. This has been an issue since the invention of the internal combustion engine.
 
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30
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USA
Originally Posted By: FowVay
It has been common knowledge that the ESP oils have not been recommended for use in gasoline fueled vehicles in North America.
Do you have more information about this? The Dexos certification is supposed to be backward compatible. If you had a Dexos2 approved oil for your diesel you should be able to use it in a gasoline Dexos1 vehicle. I planed on doing this with the Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 MST (Not Mobile, so they don't call it ESP).
 

loneryder

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WV
Originally Posted By: FowVay
Mobil has discontinued the ESP 5W-40 in favor of the ESP 0W-30. If you want the 5W-40 you'll have to find old stock and stock up. It has been common knowledge that the ESP oils have not been recommended for use in gasoline fueled vehicles in North America. VW doesn't approve 504.00, BMW doesn't approve LL-04, and it's likely that MB has also followed suit. The increased oxidation is what leads to the formation of sludge. This has been an issue since the invention of the internal combustion engine.
Well it wasn't common knowledge for awhile as there were a good number of sludged gas engines. They should label the bottle accordingly. Guess I'll have to stock up on 5-40 as my diesel really likes it and gives good analysis reports. Where did you hear it was discontinued?
 

loneryder

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WV
Originally Posted By: gyrfalcon
Originally Posted By: loneryder
Well it wasn't common knowledge for awhile as there were a good number of sludged gas engines.
Where are you getting the information that ESP oil causes sludge in gasoline engines? Mobil has a warranty, and they still state it can be used in Gasoline vehicles: https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-esp https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-1-oil-warranty
In my op, the Indie shop was getting gas engine MB's in for oil service within proper oci's that were sludged. He moderates a mechanics forum and started a discussion about this. I know from my MB diesel forum that some dealers were using the ESP oil in everything to reduce confusion and diesels getting the wrong oil. After all it says on the bottle that it's ok to use in gas engines. It has something to do with esp formula reacting with the ethanol and higher sulfur in US gasolines causing it to oxidize prematurely. I agree with the previous poster about the higher sulfur in US gas vs Europe. Mobil tried everything to keep the guy quiet but then turned around and notified MB dealers not to use ESP oil in gas engines.
 
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30
Location
USA
Originally Posted By: loneryder
In my op, the Indie shop was getting gas engine MB's in for oil service within proper oci's that were sludged. He moderates a mechanics forum and started a discussion about this. I know from my MB diesel forum that some dealers were using the ESP oil in everything to reduce confusion and diesels getting the wrong oil. After all it says on the bottle that it's ok to use in gas engines. It has something to do with esp formula reacting with the ethanol and higher sulfur in US gasolines causing it to oxidize prematurely. I agree with the previous poster about the higher sulfur in US gas vs Europe. Mobil tried everything to keep the guy quiet but then turned around and notified MB dealers not to use ESP oil in gas engines.
Thanks a ton for this information. I'm thinking about ordering bulk / 55 gallon drum of ESP 5W-30 if I can. I live in a state where sulfur is regulated below 15ppm in normal gasoline, so I think it won't have a problem with sulfer. Ethanol might be an issue though. I hope ESP is okay with ethanol since I'd prefer to run it in my truck. I'm guessing if I'm doing Blackstone lab tests at semi-regular intervals I don't have to worry too much?
 

loneryder

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WV
Are you driving a diesel? If not, why do you want the ESP? I didn't know any states had low sulfur gas. What state are you in?
 

loneryder

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1,410
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WV
If they obey those mandates, MB diesels will not like it. Don't know about your Cruze but MB says no more than 5% bio. They are talking about going to 10 and 20%. They don't mention the oxidation that occurs with the Bio part = shorter oil/filter change intervals for one.
 
Messages
30
Location
USA
Originally Posted By: loneryder
If they obey those mandates, MB diesels will not like it. Don't know about your Cruze but MB says no more than 5% bio. They are talking about going to 10 and 20%. They don't mention the oxidation that occurs with the Bio part = shorter oil/filter change intervals for one.
As long as it's not the DPF, I'll change out filters like it's nobody's business. I'm not a MB person, but I think the bio diesel regulations are fairly stringent and it's okay to burn.
 
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30
Location
USA
Originally Posted By: loneryder
What does your manual say about biodiesel?
If you're asking me:
Originally Posted By: Diesel Cruze Manual
Biodiesel blends: It is acceptable to use diesel fuel containing up to 20% biodiesel (B20). The diesel fuel portion of the blend must meet the same specification, ASTM D975 (Grades number 2-D or number 1-D S15 commonly known as Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel), as other fuels used in your vehicle, and the biodiesel used for making this fuel must meet the latest version of ASTM specification D6751.
 
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3,561
Location
Central Iowa
Most any diesel being made in the last few years has allowed some percentage of biodiesel. Some even approved for 100% biodiesel by the OEM! Most are in the less than 20% category. Gonna be hard for many to avoid anyway. A lot of diesel pumps have some percentage of bio blend or are moving that direction. Not a mandated thing like ethanol in gas yet, but highly "encouraged" by the government folks.
 
Messages
557
Location
MA
Originally Posted By: loneryder
This is the same guy who reported sludging in gas engines using the ESP oils. Mobil sent 3 guys to visit him as he was reporting it on a mechanics forum that he moderates. They denied there was a problem but notified all MB dealers not to use ESP oils in gas engines. Mechanic thinks the acids in the alcohol react with something in the ESP oil to cause them to sludge within a normal oci.
hello loneryder, Thank you for the information here ! WHICH ingredients of the ESP oils are said to be reacting with the alcohols/acids in the fuel ? any input will be greatly appreciated as we use the Extended Drain Oils extensively and would like to avoid any unknown sludge issues in future!
 
Messages
72
Location
USA
ESP oils are for diesel engines, Dexos 2 is GM's diesel oil spec. Gasoline has far too much sulfur to use with an oil of such a low TBN unless you're doing 3,000mi OCI's. I'm encouraged to see a 0W-30 low saps option!
 
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