New design for Super Tech ST3614

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Not that it is directly comparable to these filters, but I used to use nylon cable ties when running new sensor cables in dry kilns. Dry kilns usually get up to about 160'F final temperature and can run for a month or more between loads. Nylon cable ties only last a month or two before they became very very brittle...touch them and they'd snap. Supposedly, even PVC ends up brittle, but it seems to last much longer (the jacket and insulation of the sensor cable is PVC, and I've seen PVC cablet that is decades old holding up fine).

*shrug*
 
quote:

Originally posted by Filter guy:
jsharp..

Take my word for it Champion does make various models of Motocraft filters besides the all the Ford engine plant grey painted oil filters.

You're also correct that Purolator is the other supplier.

As you live in Illinois, go over to where Champ is located and see the Motocraft trucks come to the shipping docks..
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I can believe it, I've just never seen any of them except for the ones I mentioned. The plant is a ways south of me but I've never been by there.

And as others have said -
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Labman..you may want to look at the thread I started and my last post there as it relates to how filter companies test.

What I don't want to get into is disrespecting another brand because I happend to work for a company which manufactured various brands themselves.

There isn't a major brand of US made filters out there I would be wary of using.

What I can say about Fram is the obvious. Every filter they make meets or exceeds OEM manufacturers specs.

After that it gets a bit more complicated...lol

I prefer the Super Tech because of how good the media is and the price.

With oil filter media there are basically three types.

Cellulose..paper ( least expensive)
Blended media..where paper is the predominant part of the media with X % of synthetic blended in. ( more expensive)
Synthetic..commonly referred to as microglass ( most expensive)
There are multiple "grades" of each type of media type.


The Super Tech uses the blended media. Which helps it's higher efficiency at removing contaminant.

Super Tech is not the "maximum" performance media out there. There are others and that's part of the reason other filters cost more.

Other reasons why a certain filter costs more is the packaging, amount of colors used on the can itself when painted, and how much marketing needs for advertising. You pay for the advertising as well..

I think you can work out why the Super Tech costs less than the various Fram filters..you can also figure out if it meets what you require.

As someone once told me who sold cars..it's always a "good deal" when you buy. The dealers happy, the new owner is happy.

Now just because someone else comes along and gets better interest rates, trade in or whatever..when you bought ---it was a good deal to you.

Same applies to filters..if that's the one you want, buy it. I don't drive your car, know your driving habits ( city/highway), what your expectations are from the filter, what model year your car is, how often you change oil, and whether or not your doing oil analysis.

But if you've got a question on something..i'll do my worst..
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You did ask about filter area. That's a bit tricky. All things being equal more area is better. Provided you are talking about the exact same type of media.

Smaller filters for imports need to perform as well as the larger types for US vehicles. After all, consumers will drive 3,000-6,000 miles between oil changes regardless of if it's a Miata or a Cadillac. So filter manufactures will compensate on the media to make sure the import engine filter lasts long enough.

The larger filter may use a totally different media even if it is for the same engine manufacturer.

Unless you know for sure that the two elements in question use the same type and grade of media, you may not be gaining any performance advantage.

Surface area of the media by having more pleats, using the same spec media, will increase filter dirt holding capacity. But there is a limit on the number of pleats one is able to put in the same size can. To many pleats and the pleats "pinch off" and you lose dirt holding capacity.

So I hope that helps. It's not as simple as one may think. Engineers keep it that way..lol

PS: to all those who have said welcome..thanx btw
 
Filter guy, any difference between WallyWorld SuperTech and Autozone Valuecraft filters other than paint color and box graphics? American Bosch? (Or am I cutting into the quick?)
 
Soft voice here....we've seen this in the movies...

"Ray, Use the force. Let the force flow within you...."
You will understand, the force will be with you...

Obiwan is being very patient with us, we must be one with the force....

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sniffing? I thought it was a cocktail, happy hour stuff...

ok back on subject..has anyone cut up a comparable ST and VC filter to compare at least the amount of media? any other comparisons??

Rando
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:
Filter guy, any difference between WallyWorld SuperTech and Autozone Valuecraft filters other than paint color and box graphics? American Bosch? (Or am I cutting into the quick?)

American Bosch is very similar to Super Tech but has slightly more dirt holding capacity.

Valuecraft, at this point in time is designed to compete with the standard Fram. There may be a change in the future.
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Sorry it took so long to answer been traveling..
 
I'm not too concerned about how strong the plastic cage "looks" because I've seen failed filters, and IMO the cage does not prevent the media from tearing. It may give you the warm-and-fuzzies, but if the differential pressure is great enough, the media will tear.

That center tube (whether a plastic cage or a steel perf tube) is designed to prevent the pleats in the media from collapsing inward. If the bypass valve is working correctly, that plastic cage has more than enough strength to do its job. Any more is overkill.
 
boxcartommie22

They are all good companies.
Two of the three used to be my account..and the third, the company I work for buys from.
So i've got friends at all three.
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quote:

Originally posted by slalom44:
I'm not too concerned about how strong the plastic cage "looks" because I've seen failed filters, and IMO the cage does not prevent the media from tearing. It may give you the warm-and-fuzzies, but if the differential pressure is great enough, the media will tear.

That center tube (whether a plastic cage or a steel perf tube) is designed to prevent the pleats in the media from collapsing inward. If the bypass valve is working correctly, that plastic cage has more than enough strength to do its job. Any more is overkill.


Your going to have fun explaining the "coreless" design of filters then. Like these..
http://www.pall.com/datasheet_hydraulic_3104.asp

Their collapse specs are 150psi..
Automotive spec is 90psi collapse.

These filters come in up to 39 inch lengths. Not the few inches like in a spin-on.

Call your local Pall distributor and ask for a spec sheet on part number:
HC8314FKS39H..39 being the lenght..btw.

The housing this filter fits in is rated for flows up to 300 gpm and pressures of 400psi.

And the pleats don't rip at the flow rate or pressures. This filter element does slide over a perforated metal center tube inside the filter housing.

Pleats rip due to sudden pressure spikes. Center tubes collapse for the same reason.

[ November 05, 2004, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Filter guy ]
 
Champion Labs also makes the K&N oil filter. I called them to ask about the shelf life of the K&N and was told 7 years so I guess I won't be trying these new ones for awhile.
I was also told the ADBV is silicone.
 
btw...this part should have read:

Their collapse specs are 150psid..
Automotive spec is 90psid collapse.

--------------------------------------------

7 year shelf life for a spin-on, as long as the filter is kept in the packaging and not exposed to moisture or humidity. All that metal around the element generally protects it.

They can last up to 10 years if you don't leave them in your garage.

Paper air filters are approximately 3 years shelf life. Even sitting in the chipboard box it is packaged in, they absorb moisture out of the air and it shortens the media life. Of course if you take it out of the box and let airborne dirt get to the filter, that shortens the life even more.
 
Pall may be a different design for automotive..now..
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My point was that you can flow very high rates of hot oil through a center tube and it won't collapse. It is generally a sudden high pressure spike that collapses a center tube. One which is to "high" for the relief valve to compensate for.

The same is true of media. It can handle high flows. What it can't handle is the sudden high pressure that isn't relieved. So paper media will tear or rip. Synthetic media will seperate. You may not see a tear or ripped pleats like a paper element but under a microscope you will see the glass fibers have seperated.

As for the clicker type by-pass valve in the Super Tech filter..if it good enough for some of the engineers at Champ to use on their personal vehicles, it's good enough for me.
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quote:

Originally posted by motorguy222:
As I have said more than once.If this was a Fram product,how many would be saying it was a good design?

Anyone?

I think if this was a Fram product,it would be getting raked over the coals as being just another gimmick by Fram and a piece of junk.

These filters may be fine,I dont know.
I just dont feel comfortable with them and will stay away from them as long as possible.


You have to take into account, Fram has a history of inferior products - Do a search on this site, you will come up with many hits.

I do believe, that if the Fram came out with this product, that on this site, yes, it would be skeptical to a few on here, just as the 'history' has shown in the past, however, the X-filter (the expensive Fram one) looks like a decently-made filter - Except for the over-inflated price, so this tells me that had Fram come out with this, yes, there would be some skepticism, but I think it would be dissected and tested by some members on the forum and opinions would go from there.

You have to remember an old phrase when dealing with a Fram-bashing scenario - "It's always harder to make a second Good Impression"
 
Originally posted by Filterguy:
quote:

Your going to have fun explaining the "coreless" design of filters then. Like these..
https://www.pall.com/

Their collapse specs are 150psi..
Automotive spec is 90psi collapse.

These filters come in up to 39 inch lengths. Not the few inches like in a spin-on.

I don't get your point. Pall's design is completely different than conventional oil filters. You can't just remove the center tube of any Champion filter and expect it to not collape. But if the bypass valve doesn't open up (like the clicker-type they used), then the filter will fail due to torn filter media and not from a collapsed center tube.
 
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btw..I posted this in another thread but thought it needed to be posted here as well..

The Ecore filter does NOT use cardboard for it's endcaps.

The pleats of the media are thermally bonded to the endcaps with the high temp plastic center tube. The collapse pressure for this element design in 115psid minimum.
 
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