Any damage to sheet metal is a place for rust to start
New car purchase with evidence of accident, concern?
- Thread starter panthermike
- Start date
I will look more closely for overspray. It was me who noticed the difference, but the buyer is concerned. I have no reason to sway one way or the other, just trying to present as much information as possible to him.
And did it on the cheap too by the sound of it.
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- Dec 28, 2014
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Take it back. Yet I feel as if taking it back won’t be as easy as you think from a dealer that just sold you a vehicle that has been in an accident (and didn’t disclose it).
Accidents happen, cars degrade, BUT YOU want to be THE ONE doing the damage and degrading when you’re paying $40,000. Not someone before you. Take it back.
Accidents happen, cars degrade, BUT YOU want to be THE ONE doing the damage and degrading when you’re paying $40,000. Not someone before you. Take it back.
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I think you totally hit the nail on the head.
Everyday when I drive to work, I'll see a beautiful car, such as a S580 etc. And when the sun is shining on it, the texture of a door or fender or 1/4 is ripply. So it had body work not becoming of how it left the factory. I get that for 80% of the general public, it's just fine. They're giving the car back in 0-35 months anyway, not their problem. But I'm of the 20% who care.
What matters the most is what the buyer thinks. Doesn't sound like anything was misrepresented, CarFax was wrong (what a surprise). So it's totally up to the buyer. If me, and there are no strings? I'd absolutely return it.
Just to reveal a little into how I think. We test drove a vehicle last weekend and it had 9 miles on it. When we came back, it had 17. Even if I wanted this exact vehicle, I'd order it, because 17 miles is not technically brand new. It's been driven by people outside of the delivery supply chain.
Technically it is new, as it's never been registered, has a MSO, and thus new as far as DMV is concerned. But it's going to have a life where anyone who is interested in this model, will be driving it. Wife's cousins said, "Did you floor it?!!!!" I said no, which was met with disappointment. Many would. And that's why I'd rather get what I consider a new car. But does it matter? Not really.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Absolutely but the vast majority of people just don’t know what to look for. Most people don’t open the hood when buying a vehicle.
Not so much in Arizona where OP and likely the buyer live.
@panthermike who is the dealer?
Why would the manufacturer cover this under their (mostly) mechanical warranty ? That type of damage is negligence, not a defect and it would be on the transporter's insurance more likely.
@AZjeff it was Bill Luke Tempe. The big one in Phoenix is not great but they treated him really well here.
@John105, you are absolutely correct that there was no ill will here or misrepresentation. Vehicle was put through PDI with an oil change only. And yes that is what makes it difficult in this case as well is the Carfax is squeaky clean.
Another concern of his which I think is valid; if there's any issues in the future related to any parts that were affected by the accident, will the warranty deny? Due to structural damage prior etc. And I totally agree with all the sentiment here, when you spend that kind of money you want to be fully satisfied!
At this point, he is thinking about returning the vehicle which has to be done by today. Luckily this is their policy and it is in writing and signed, so there shouldn't be any trouble there. After this debacle he's likely just going to spend a little extra and buy new or bring me with him to look at the next one
he does definitely care about those cosmetic things.
@John105, you are absolutely correct that there was no ill will here or misrepresentation. Vehicle was put through PDI with an oil change only. And yes that is what makes it difficult in this case as well is the Carfax is squeaky clean.
Another concern of his which I think is valid; if there's any issues in the future related to any parts that were affected by the accident, will the warranty deny? Due to structural damage prior etc. And I totally agree with all the sentiment here, when you spend that kind of money you want to be fully satisfied!
At this point, he is thinking about returning the vehicle which has to be done by today. Luckily this is their policy and it is in writing and signed, so there shouldn't be any trouble there. After this debacle he's likely just going to spend a little extra and buy new or bring me with him to look at the next one
he does definitely care about those cosmetic things.
Because they’re selling it to you as a new car with a new car warranty. If the paint goes bad in a new car they have to cover it whether the paint was applied at the factory or at the dealership prior to sale.
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This is what $9k in damages looks and sounds like:
And they never caught the guy (I only pulled the video on the next day).
Rear fender, two doors, mirror, front fender.
Do I care it was repaired ? No. Would I have liked to know it has been repaired, if I was buying it ? Only to haggle the price down.
It is to be noted that the bodyshop that did this is so good, I can't see ANY trace of the repair. I've watched in sunlight, in artificial light (usually that's when you can see the seams) - nada.
However, If I was the buyer the thread discusses - I'd keep the car, but negociate some reimbursement down.
And they never caught the guy (I only pulled the video on the next day).
Rear fender, two doors, mirror, front fender.
Do I care it was repaired ? No. Would I have liked to know it has been repaired, if I was buying it ? Only to haggle the price down.
It is to be noted that the bodyshop that did this is so good, I can't see ANY trace of the repair. I've watched in sunlight, in artificial light (usually that's when you can see the seams) - nada.
However, If I was the buyer the thread discusses - I'd keep the car, but negociate some reimbursement down.
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I get that , maybe just the headlight lens was cracked or had moisture Inside
Totally get your points! However the door and fender color difference is pretty striking to my eyes( maybe subtle to others). No other panels on the vehicle are a different color except for that right front fender.
This.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
$40k? Return it. If it was in a crash to the point you can tell, but wasn't disclosed, that's shady business in my book.
Would probably gain respect and a long term customer with honesty.
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A few things...
- Car has been in an event that was light enough not to make its way up to CarFax. That's good. Means the car left the even on its own. Could have been anything - a scratch, a very deep keying, anything.
- Repair was done in a way and at a place that didn't make it to CarFax. That's not that good. Most decent body shops will log your VIN, and it will get into CarFax no matter what. That can actually be an issue sometimes, as any visit to a body shop will get logged, with no details. But one way or the other, it was done in a way that didn't make it to "decent" channels. Could've been done at home. Or in any informal way.
The fact that you can see the difference is relevant enough.
- There is also one very, very unlikely case - a bad paint that would age in a weird way. Like - if the car sat parked always at the same spot, always in the same shade, with a specific panel always in the sun at always the same time while the rest was shaded. It can happen. But much less likely on modern cars.
The Ladas from the 90s had a factory paint so bad that every panel would age differently. They were painted at different times at the factory or something. So after a few years it looked like every single panel and door was a different color, as the clearcoat would go differently. It was especially the case with the red ones.
But I doubt one can see this on a new car nowadays.
- Car has been in an event that was light enough not to make its way up to CarFax. That's good. Means the car left the even on its own. Could have been anything - a scratch, a very deep keying, anything.
- Repair was done in a way and at a place that didn't make it to CarFax. That's not that good. Most decent body shops will log your VIN, and it will get into CarFax no matter what. That can actually be an issue sometimes, as any visit to a body shop will get logged, with no details. But one way or the other, it was done in a way that didn't make it to "decent" channels. Could've been done at home. Or in any informal way.
The fact that you can see the difference is relevant enough.
- There is also one very, very unlikely case - a bad paint that would age in a weird way. Like - if the car sat parked always at the same spot, always in the same shade, with a specific panel always in the sun at always the same time while the rest was shaded. It can happen. But much less likely on modern cars.
The Ladas from the 90s had a factory paint so bad that every panel would age differently. They were painted at different times at the factory or something. So after a few years it looked like every single panel and door was a different color, as the clearcoat would go differently. It was especially the case with the red ones.
But I doubt one can see this on a new car nowadays.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
I purchased and rebuilt a very low mileage owner S500 some years ago that was in a fire. The one owner spared no expense, as was demonstrated by the maintenance records on the S500.
During the rebuild process I discovered rusted out parts, and wrong hardware on the passenger side of the front end. It was discovered the S500 was in a small fender bender. Further discovered the tech/ shop doing the repairs "rigged" the repairs. Viewable to the eye, apparently no. Repair done wrong to save under $50 in hardware- and the hassle of ordering the needed parts--absolutely.
The OP situation isn't a case of overspray. Headlight was replaced, and replacement was a non-OEM part, so headlights not only no longer OEM. the headlights are not even matched, on a car that cost $40k USD. Accident not being on carfax might be an even bigger flag for numerous reasons.
Return that car. This is not some $3k USD beater.
If anyone wants to read the story on the low mileage one owner S500 with a "rigged" body shop repair to save $50 in hardware, let me know and I will find the link to the repair- I posted the repair online over 10 years ago.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Here is the text, pictures, and a link to the low mileage S500 with a rigged repair I discovered during the rebuild process:
Update on the rebuild. Finally had some time to get back to the external fire burn W220.
Biggest surprise was it was in a prior accident. Carfax did not list the accident, and it was a one-owner, at the MB dealer monthly for any reason car. The shop that did the repair did a very poor job, they cut corners and essentially rigged the repair. I find this very disappointing as all indications the owner spared no expense with her W220, and only has 41k miles. I suspect the shop charged full repair and then bent into shape easily replaceable parts. Problem was they did not bend them properly, and that is how I discovered the right front corner was in some sort of fender bender.
The Mount Frame - Mercedes-Benz (220-620-06-72) caught my eye as being mangled. After I took off the front bumper, I discovered not only had the bracket that connects the fender to the bumper been bent to fit, it had a sheet metal screw in a place where it should of been a MB torx screw, and that the bend caused major rusting of the bracket. Attached is a picture of the left side bracket and the bent right side bracket. What a difference. The body shop also used bondo on the right fender. W220 fenders are inexpensive and easy to replace. Could of painted it without have to tape the car, and then bolted it on. I suspect the fender and the bumper did not sit like new. What a shame.
The picture is of the same part, one on the left side, one of the right side. Very clear to see the unviewable damage to the right-side part from the accident. All because the repair shop wanted to save $25 dollars and may have been to lazy to order the parts. Worse thing, over time this part that required replacement would have resulted in the front bumper cover slowly sinking from its intended position.
https://www.benzworld.org/threads/2...serection-thread.2952193/page-2#post-17276353
Update on the rebuild. Finally had some time to get back to the external fire burn W220.
Biggest surprise was it was in a prior accident. Carfax did not list the accident, and it was a one-owner, at the MB dealer monthly for any reason car. The shop that did the repair did a very poor job, they cut corners and essentially rigged the repair. I find this very disappointing as all indications the owner spared no expense with her W220, and only has 41k miles. I suspect the shop charged full repair and then bent into shape easily replaceable parts. Problem was they did not bend them properly, and that is how I discovered the right front corner was in some sort of fender bender.
The Mount Frame - Mercedes-Benz (220-620-06-72) caught my eye as being mangled. After I took off the front bumper, I discovered not only had the bracket that connects the fender to the bumper been bent to fit, it had a sheet metal screw in a place where it should of been a MB torx screw, and that the bend caused major rusting of the bracket. Attached is a picture of the left side bracket and the bent right side bracket. What a difference. The body shop also used bondo on the right fender. W220 fenders are inexpensive and easy to replace. Could of painted it without have to tape the car, and then bolted it on. I suspect the fender and the bumper did not sit like new. What a shame.
The picture is of the same part, one on the left side, one of the right side. Very clear to see the unviewable damage to the right-side part from the accident. All because the repair shop wanted to save $25 dollars and may have been to lazy to order the parts. Worse thing, over time this part that required replacement would have resulted in the front bumper cover slowly sinking from its intended position.
https://www.benzworld.org/threads/2...serection-thread.2952193/page-2#post-17276353
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