So i did my first brake job a few weeks ago. New pads, and rotors on the front. Greased the guide pins and all that. I have been driving the car a lot since then. I have put about 1,000 miles on it. 70% highway 30% around town. After I did the brakes they were dead silent. It felt like you were stopping on pillows. The brakes feel like normal now but every time I take off they squeak as my tires start to move like they scrape a part of the rotor. this started after a few hundred miles and isnt seeming to get better. They also occasionally squeal when coming to a stop but pressing the brakes harder or softer seems to fix it. I have been planning on doing a suspension overhual on the front since i need new struts. I am wondering if the wheel bearings could have anything to do with it. Either way they are original and have 168,000 on them so i am going to be doing struts, wheell hubs, tie rods and stabalizer arms. Any suggestions?
New brakes squek upon takeoff after 1000 miles
- Thread starter Mullick2001
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Green permatex synthetic disc brake lube on the backs of the pads should stop the noise. If you have thin metal shims on the back put the lube between the pad and shims. Lube the pins as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-24110-Ultra-Brake-Caliper/dp/B000HBNV6W
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-24110-Ultra-Brake-Caliper/dp/B000HBNV6W
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Can you please let us know which vehicle, what brand of rotors, type of pads, and did you put in all new clips and caliper hardware or just clean up the old ones? Thanks. To me, it sounds like the pads are not 'lifting' off the rotor when the brakes are not applied which could be due to worn brake hardware.
semi-metallic or ceramic?
and the rotors are brand new? How about the abatement clips? did you replace them? Also: did you also grease the pad backing part (assuming that your replacement ones come with shims) with high temp/synthetic brake grease?
Q.
and the rotors are brand new? How about the abatement clips? did you replace them? Also: did you also grease the pad backing part (assuming that your replacement ones come with shims) with high temp/synthetic brake grease?
Q.
2005 malibu max in my signature. Napa premium Rotors and Napa OE Ceramics here.
I took a wire brush to the clips and cleaned then very well and there housing with brake cleaner. I lubed the guide pins but never heard of greasing the back of the pads maybe thats my problem. I cleaned all of the lube off the rotors and tightened all caliper bolts to the spec with a torque wrench.
Also forgot to mention the pads on the inside toward the engine did not fit right on both sides. These are the pads with the wear indicator on them. I had to grind down the nubs at the end that fit into the brackets with a dremel. I got both of them to go in fairly easy but had to use a rubber mallet to get one on but once it was in it moved pretty easily.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=RTSTS7932X_0319739595
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NB_48880184_0294848904
I took a wire brush to the clips and cleaned then very well and there housing with brake cleaner. I lubed the guide pins but never heard of greasing the back of the pads maybe thats my problem. I cleaned all of the lube off the rotors and tightened all caliper bolts to the spec with a torque wrench.
Also forgot to mention the pads on the inside toward the engine did not fit right on both sides. These are the pads with the wear indicator on them. I had to grind down the nubs at the end that fit into the brackets with a dremel. I got both of them to go in fairly easy but had to use a rubber mallet to get one on but once it was in it moved pretty easily.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=RTSTS7932X_0319739595
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NB_48880184_0294848904
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Ah OK, I put two and two together, its the Malibu if you said it's got 168k on it.
If you used pads that had bonded, nitrile-coated shims, there is no need to grease the back of the pads in my opinion.
The slight noise as you're braking depending on the pressure applied may be due to dust buildup or vibration hitting rust; that is, old, misaligned or worn hardware is not keeping the pad in proper position during braking and the pad in turn vibrates and hits a sliver of rust (say on the inner or outer edge of the rotor face) and resonates to squeaking that you're hearing. Noise is due to some sort of vibration (I mean, that is what sound is of course). If you are not feeling vibration in the pedal or steering then I doubt it's run-out on the rotor. It's a difficult thing to describe in words but I hope this makes sense. I may be off in some of the exacting industry-terms I used, but the general idea is there.
If you used pads that had bonded, nitrile-coated shims, there is no need to grease the back of the pads in my opinion.
The slight noise as you're braking depending on the pressure applied may be due to dust buildup or vibration hitting rust; that is, old, misaligned or worn hardware is not keeping the pad in proper position during braking and the pad in turn vibrates and hits a sliver of rust (say on the inner or outer edge of the rotor face) and resonates to squeaking that you're hearing. Noise is due to some sort of vibration (I mean, that is what sound is of course). If you are not feeling vibration in the pedal or steering then I doubt it's run-out on the rotor. It's a difficult thing to describe in words but I hope this makes sense. I may be off in some of the exacting industry-terms I used, but the general idea is there.
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
2005 malibu max in my signature. Napa premium Rotors and Napa OE Ceramics here.
I took a wire brush to the clips and cleaned then very well and there housing with brake cleaner. ...
(emphasis added)
Get a hardware kit. Preferably one of the ones that are nitrile coated; the brakebest stuff from O'Reilly's is sometimes nitrile coated, as are some of the kits from Carlson. I think some of the Raybestos kits are nitril coated as well. Worn hardware, even if cleaned, can definitely cause the noise you describe.
2005 malibu max in my signature. Napa premium Rotors and Napa OE Ceramics here.
I took a wire brush to the clips and cleaned then very well and there housing with brake cleaner. ...
(emphasis added)
Get a hardware kit. Preferably one of the ones that are nitrile coated; the brakebest stuff from O'Reilly's is sometimes nitrile coated, as are some of the kits from Carlson. I think some of the Raybestos kits are nitril coated as well. Worn hardware, even if cleaned, can definitely cause the noise you describe.
Will do. I edited my last post to add abut the brake pads. The old rotors were severly warped. Your neck would almost hurt from the on and off braking while holding steady pressure. It made my steering column rattle so the stupid dealership i bought it from said i needed a new steering column. Well it is gone and has not made a noise since the new brakes. Unfortunately my Electronic power steering sopped working once a few days ago. Flashed power steering on my radio and was extremely hard to turn. ( my first car never had power steering and was easier to turn). Turns out it's a sensor and the steering column would need to be replaced. Hasn't done it in 3 days or 100 miles so i'm happy.
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Return the pads too in my opinion. Sounds like the backing plate with the wear sensor wasn't stamped correctly. Poorly stamped pads are poor fitting pads and no amount of new hardware will correct that. But with that being said, perhaps it is the worn hardware that is causing new pads not to fit correctly, but I've never heard of it this way or experienced it this way. I can understand if it was just the paint (if any) on the backing plate that you had to sand off, but if you had to grind the actual backing plate, that's an ill-fitting pad and can cause the noise you describe in addition to worn hardware.
I don't know who Napa uses for their premium ceramic pads, but I've had great fit with Bendix CT-3 pads as well as Akebono ProACT pads, and of course, OEM factory pads, never had to grind down any of them.
I don't know who Napa uses for their premium ceramic pads, but I've had great fit with Bendix CT-3 pads as well as Akebono ProACT pads, and of course, OEM factory pads, never had to grind down any of them.
It wasn't the backing pads it is the little nubs that stick out on each side and fit into the caliper clips they were about 1mm too long and both sides would not go in without grinding. Picture here
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Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
It wasn't the backing pads it is the little nubs that stick out on each side and fit into the caliper clips they were about 1mm too long and both sides would not go in without grinding. Picture here
Those are the 'ears' of the pads, and are still a part of the backing plates. If those don't fit well, it's a poorly stamped backing plate (defect) or perhaps maybe a mis-labled pad.
Those look like bonded shims, and although don't appear to be nitrile coated, I wouldn't necessarily be putting grease on them.
It wasn't the backing pads it is the little nubs that stick out on each side and fit into the caliper clips they were about 1mm too long and both sides would not go in without grinding. Picture here
Those are the 'ears' of the pads, and are still a part of the backing plates. If those don't fit well, it's a poorly stamped backing plate (defect) or perhaps maybe a mis-labled pad.
Those look like bonded shims, and although don't appear to be nitrile coated, I wouldn't necessarily be putting grease on them.
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
I took a wire brush to the clips and cleaned then very well and there housing with brake cleaner.
Did you take those clips off and clean out any buildup of oxidised metal underneath? If not, then you could have a situation that would make the pads fit too tightly or not at all.
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Also forgot to mention the pads on the inside toward the engine did not fit right on both sides. These are the pads with the wear indicator on them. I had to grind down the nubs at the end that fit into the brackets with a dremel.
...and left a rough surface of bare metal? Those should be smooth and coated. If the pads didn't fit because they were made wrong, why not just exchange them for another set?
I took a wire brush to the clips and cleaned then very well and there housing with brake cleaner.
Did you take those clips off and clean out any buildup of oxidised metal underneath? If not, then you could have a situation that would make the pads fit too tightly or not at all.
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Also forgot to mention the pads on the inside toward the engine did not fit right on both sides. These are the pads with the wear indicator on them. I had to grind down the nubs at the end that fit into the brackets with a dremel.
...and left a rough surface of bare metal? Those should be smooth and coated. If the pads didn't fit because they were made wrong, why not just exchange them for another set?
Did you et the pin with the rubber end piece back in the correct position? Silicone grease or sylglide works best on these calipers.
Edit: Make sure you remove the clips the pads slide on and wire wheel or brush under them.
Lube these also with a very thin coat of lube.
Edit: Make sure you remove the clips the pads slide on and wire wheel or brush under them.
Lube these also with a very thin coat of lube.
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Yep took the pins out and slid the boot up greased the pin with silicon grease and put them back making sure the book re seated in the caliper. I Did remove the clips and clean where they snap in I did not leave a rough surface on the clip but rather shined it with my very dull wire brush. I did not grease the clips at all the only thing I greased was the guide pins. I'll probably get new pads soon they were only $27 I didn't expect much.
Well I solved the issue with the front brakes. Took the calipers off again and had to pry the inside pads off with a screw driver (very carefully). Seems the ears were still too big so i bought new clips and same issue. Napa would not warranty them since I had already ground them down. So I took out the dremel and removed almost 1mm all the way around the ears until they slid in perfect but were not very loose. I greased the ears, clips, back of the pads, caliper piston and guide pins again. Drove around town and not a noise. I then went on a road trip 350 miles. Parked overnight at the hotel where it was 50° warmer than home and raining. Woke up to this on all my rotors. Pretty sure its normal for cheaper rotors right?
When I got home I decided to grease the back brakes since I noticed one of my rotors was forming rust streaks through where the pad should contact that did not go away after a little driving like the others. This is what I found
Uneven pad wear hmm.....
That pin looks fine....
Ah HAH the culprit. Seized solid. Hitting with a hammer wont budge it or locking on vice grips and beating with hammer to try to turn. Now i have to do pad and rotors in the back as well as a new caliper bracket and guide pins on that wheel. This would be from the dealership since they did a 4 wheel "lifetime" brake job before I bought the car. After 40,000 the fronts were warped badly and this caliper is stuck requiring all there "lifetime" brakes to be replaced.
I have front struts that need to be replaced badly and and going to do wheel bearings and outer tie rod ends as well since i believe they are both factory original at 170,000 now. Maybe i will document it and make a few tutorials if anyone is interested.
When I got home I decided to grease the back brakes since I noticed one of my rotors was forming rust streaks through where the pad should contact that did not go away after a little driving like the others. This is what I found
Uneven pad wear hmm.....
That pin looks fine....
Ah HAH the culprit. Seized solid. Hitting with a hammer wont budge it or locking on vice grips and beating with hammer to try to turn. Now i have to do pad and rotors in the back as well as a new caliper bracket and guide pins on that wheel. This would be from the dealership since they did a 4 wheel "lifetime" brake job before I bought the car. After 40,000 the fronts were warped badly and this caliper is stuck requiring all there "lifetime" brakes to be replaced.
I have front struts that need to be replaced badly and and going to do wheel bearings and outer tie rod ends as well since i believe they are both factory original at 170,000 now. Maybe i will document it and make a few tutorials if anyone is interested.
Surface rust will always develop on the pad swept area of the rotor's face, value rotors or premium [sans carbon rotors]. For the non-swept surfaces, you can purchase 'premium' rotors that are coated to help prevent rust from showing on those parts, but I have never really heard of an [iron] rotor that does not develop surface rust on the pad swept area.
Seized pins can be prevented by replacing and using new rubber boots and pin bushings and the correct grease whenever working on the brakes (Of course clean out as much of the old grease as you can from the bore in the caliper bracket; I use a combination of q-tips, a paper towel wrapped screwdriver, the pin itself and brake parts cleaner). I have found that O'Reilly's 'BrakeBest' brand to have great prices on the rubber boot pin kits and the quality seems pretty good compared to my other go-to brand of Carlson. Rubber will age over time and may not seal as well against the lips on the caliper brackets or pins if just cleaned and re-used.
I recommend against using any of the dark-colored 'CRC Synthetic Brake Grease' on caliper slide pins and boots; that stuff will swell rubber parts and can lead to seized pins. The CRC stuff I have found works fairly well in between shims and the backing plates (if you have the loose clip on style shims instead of the bonded type). I have been using Napa Sil-Glyde with great results on slide pins.
Specifically regarding that seized rear caliper, sometimes it's not much more to purchase a friction-ready caliper, which includes a rebuilt caliper and bracket; I've found the prices on single brackets to be close to purchasing a complete caliper. And also, many times there is a difference between the top and bottom pins (usually length); install these in the wrong location [along with a rubber-swelling grease if the pins have bushings on them] and it'd be quite easy for the pin to then seize in the bore.
Some premium pads will come with the necessary abutment clips/hardware that should be replaced, Raybestos Advanced Tech, Bendix CT-3, and almost any Centric pads [even their economy pads] I've used in the past, so you may just be able to purchase pads that include these and worry about purchasing a rubber pin boot kit and bracket/caliper assembly separately.
Hopefully everything works out. If you run into anything else, don't hesitate to let us know, but it seems like you're on the right track. Trust me, it so nice to have properly working brakes after dealing with and getting used to ill-working ones.
Seized pins can be prevented by replacing and using new rubber boots and pin bushings and the correct grease whenever working on the brakes (Of course clean out as much of the old grease as you can from the bore in the caliper bracket; I use a combination of q-tips, a paper towel wrapped screwdriver, the pin itself and brake parts cleaner). I have found that O'Reilly's 'BrakeBest' brand to have great prices on the rubber boot pin kits and the quality seems pretty good compared to my other go-to brand of Carlson. Rubber will age over time and may not seal as well against the lips on the caliper brackets or pins if just cleaned and re-used.
I recommend against using any of the dark-colored 'CRC Synthetic Brake Grease' on caliper slide pins and boots; that stuff will swell rubber parts and can lead to seized pins. The CRC stuff I have found works fairly well in between shims and the backing plates (if you have the loose clip on style shims instead of the bonded type). I have been using Napa Sil-Glyde with great results on slide pins.
Specifically regarding that seized rear caliper, sometimes it's not much more to purchase a friction-ready caliper, which includes a rebuilt caliper and bracket; I've found the prices on single brackets to be close to purchasing a complete caliper. And also, many times there is a difference between the top and bottom pins (usually length); install these in the wrong location [along with a rubber-swelling grease if the pins have bushings on them] and it'd be quite easy for the pin to then seize in the bore.
Some premium pads will come with the necessary abutment clips/hardware that should be replaced, Raybestos Advanced Tech, Bendix CT-3, and almost any Centric pads [even their economy pads] I've used in the past, so you may just be able to purchase pads that include these and worry about purchasing a rubber pin boot kit and bracket/caliper assembly separately.
Hopefully everything works out. If you run into anything else, don't hesitate to let us know, but it seems like you're on the right track. Trust me, it so nice to have properly working brakes after dealing with and getting used to ill-working ones.
Thanks for the info. I found the bracket complete with pins and boots for $35 which is $40 cheaper than a loaded caliper. I'm not too worried about the back brakes so im gonna go this route with new rotors and pads. Then I will have brand new brakes on all 4 wheels. I learned from this thread GREASE EVERY MOVING PART or else you will get noise. I have about 1000 miles on the fronts after I greased them and not a noise. The rear will have to wait Im saving up for struts wheel bearing and the back brakes all hopefully next month. Gonna kill my wallet at $700 but it needs them all unfortunately
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