New 54.5 MPG Fuel Economy Standards, Rd. 2
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Yes, 17K is hyperbole with the materials used in typical construction.
But I think one could get a relatively flat torque curve out to 7k. It will just take time for the technology to catch up with the ideas and to dispel the entrenched conventional wisdom.
On the smaller scale, I think we are already witnessing some of the first steps with the EcoBoost V6 in light duty trucks.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I guess I have to ask what is wrong with reving to 7k or 17k RPMs?
If you can get a relatively flat torque curve, then having a broad RPM range means you can stay in gear, rather than shifting.
If it's a nice, flat torque curve, I suppose there's certainly nothing wrong with it. I don't think we've seen a lot of examples, however, that would be ideal in truck operations. Also, I suspect there will be a fear (real or imagined) that a tow vehicle regularly being revved to 17,000 RPMs might not have the long term durability of something that generally shifts at 3 or 4 thousand RPM.
But I think one could get a relatively flat torque curve out to 7k. It will just take time for the technology to catch up with the ideas and to dispel the entrenched conventional wisdom.
On the smaller scale, I think we are already witnessing some of the first steps with the EcoBoost V6 in light duty trucks.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I guess I have to ask what is wrong with reving to 7k or 17k RPMs?
If you can get a relatively flat torque curve, then having a broad RPM range means you can stay in gear, rather than shifting.
If it's a nice, flat torque curve, I suppose there's certainly nothing wrong with it. I don't think we've seen a lot of examples, however, that would be ideal in truck operations. Also, I suspect there will be a fear (real or imagined) that a tow vehicle regularly being revved to 17,000 RPMs might not have the long term durability of something that generally shifts at 3 or 4 thousand RPM.
There have been few periods in the past 30+ years I've not owned a manual. I have one in my fleet now, my daily driver. I hope to add a second in a few years, while keeping the current DD, if feasible.
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
Originally Posted By: javacontour
On the smaller scale, I think we are already witnessing some of the first steps with the EcoBoost V6 in light duty trucks.
Well, it remains to be seen, but truth be told, I'm optimistic. There is, however, always the concern about a high revving engine having less durability than a lower revving one under towing conditions. Let's make them all electric - lots of low end torque there.
On the smaller scale, I think we are already witnessing some of the first steps with the EcoBoost V6 in light duty trucks.
Well, it remains to be seen, but truth be told, I'm optimistic. There is, however, always the concern about a high revving engine having less durability than a lower revving one under towing conditions. Let's make them all electric - lots of low end torque there.
I really think this is an application where hybrid technology makes sense. Store energy when braking for the next take off. That could be electrical, but batteries are heavy, or pneumatic/hydraulic.
One possible incentive for this technology would be to allow vehicles that implement this technology to have higher GVW. I.E. some amount over 40T to more than recoup the additional weight of any hybrid system.
Once up to speed, not as much power is needed, so a smaller engine assisted by some hybrid start system may be one way to go.
Of course, if you allow a higher GVW, then the smaller engine does have a harder time pulling up hills.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: javacontour
On the smaller scale, I think we are already witnessing some of the first steps with the EcoBoost V6 in light duty trucks.
Well, it remains to be seen, but truth be told, I'm optimistic. There is, however, always the concern about a high revving engine having less durability than a lower revving one under towing conditions. Let's make them all electric - lots of low end torque there.
One possible incentive for this technology would be to allow vehicles that implement this technology to have higher GVW. I.E. some amount over 40T to more than recoup the additional weight of any hybrid system.
Once up to speed, not as much power is needed, so a smaller engine assisted by some hybrid start system may be one way to go.
Of course, if you allow a higher GVW, then the smaller engine does have a harder time pulling up hills.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: javacontour
On the smaller scale, I think we are already witnessing some of the first steps with the EcoBoost V6 in light duty trucks.
Well, it remains to be seen, but truth be told, I'm optimistic. There is, however, always the concern about a high revving engine having less durability than a lower revving one under towing conditions. Let's make them all electric - lots of low end torque there.
UPS is running some cool hybrid hydraulic/ICE trucks. The small hydraulic motors allow regen braking and the system is fairly compact.
We have a long way to go. And when it comes to BUYING this new technology, I'll let Tommygun go first!
We have a long way to go. And when it comes to BUYING this new technology, I'll let Tommygun go first!
54.5 MPG.......
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
Used to.
NFW would I buy one in a daily driven around town truck. I don't enjoy shifting gears in traffic. Let the computers handle that, they do a good enough job. I also enjoy having fuel injection and electronic ignition as well, technology marches on.
Now in a weekend sports car...
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
Used to.
NFW would I buy one in a daily driven around town truck. I don't enjoy shifting gears in traffic. Let the computers handle that, they do a good enough job. I also enjoy having fuel injection and electronic ignition as well, technology marches on.
Now in a weekend sports car...
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Originally Posted By: javacontour
I really think this is an application where hybrid technology makes sense. Store energy when braking for the next take off. That could be electrical, but batteries are heavy, or pneumatic/hydraulic.
One possible incentive for this technology would be to allow vehicles that implement this technology to have higher GVW. I.E. some amount over 40T to more than recoup the additional weight of any hybrid system.
Absolutely - big possibilities when one looks at the big rigs. With legal and fleet policy limitations on idling, there are other possible benefits.
A friend just bought a brand new F-150 with the new 5.0 L. He's going to be testing it's limits a bit. He's going to haul some water with it a bit, but it won't be over long distances or at terribly high speeds. He'll definitely get an idea how the torque and horsepower work out.
I really think this is an application where hybrid technology makes sense. Store energy when braking for the next take off. That could be electrical, but batteries are heavy, or pneumatic/hydraulic.
One possible incentive for this technology would be to allow vehicles that implement this technology to have higher GVW. I.E. some amount over 40T to more than recoup the additional weight of any hybrid system.
Absolutely - big possibilities when one looks at the big rigs. With legal and fleet policy limitations on idling, there are other possible benefits.
A friend just bought a brand new F-150 with the new 5.0 L. He's going to be testing it's limits a bit. He's going to haul some water with it a bit, but it won't be over long distances or at terribly high speeds. He'll definitely get an idea how the torque and horsepower work out.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
Used to.
NFW would I buy one in a daily driven around town truck. I don't enjoy shifting gears in traffic. Let the computers handle that, they do a good enough job. I also enjoy having fuel injection and electronic ignition as well, technology marches on.
Now in a weekend sports car...
at least you're honest. I have a manual trans truck, but it was very hard to find.
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
Used to.
NFW would I buy one in a daily driven around town truck. I don't enjoy shifting gears in traffic. Let the computers handle that, they do a good enough job. I also enjoy having fuel injection and electronic ignition as well, technology marches on.
Now in a weekend sports car...
at least you're honest. I have a manual trans truck, but it was very hard to find.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
My truck is a T-19 4-speed. My Cherokee is not...I just couldn't find one in good condition with a 5-speed.
Same, couldn't find a good 5 speed Cherokee.
My focus was a hard find, but I *did* find a 5 speed focus!
50MPG is certainly possible. I've heard of people with the Cruze Eco hitting 50 on the highway. A small, boosted 4 cyl with a TALL overdrive and the right aerodynamics could get 50mpg.
I've got 46 on a round trip from Syracuse NY to Rochester NY. I had to drive it like a granny but I did it.If my focus had a taller 5th gear (or a 6th), I would have easily been able to hit 50.
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
My truck is a T-19 4-speed. My Cherokee is not...I just couldn't find one in good condition with a 5-speed.
Same, couldn't find a good 5 speed Cherokee.
My focus was a hard find, but I *did* find a 5 speed focus!
50MPG is certainly possible. I've heard of people with the Cruze Eco hitting 50 on the highway. A small, boosted 4 cyl with a TALL overdrive and the right aerodynamics could get 50mpg.
I've got 46 on a round trip from Syracuse NY to Rochester NY. I had to drive it like a granny but I did it.If my focus had a taller 5th gear (or a 6th), I would have easily been able to hit 50.
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
I have never owned an automatic vehicle in my life. Would be sweet if I never had to.
how many of you guys saying you want mnuals back even own one?
I have never owned an automatic vehicle in my life. Would be sweet if I never had to.
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