New 2009 Toyota Corolla Review - Not too good...
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Originally Posted By: rationull
Was the Civic you drove a 4 door? I've heard that the sedan's suspension is softer and the driving feel isn't as good as the coupe's. Of course, you get two more doors for that price. I'm pretty sure if I had wanted a 4 door I would've gotten a 3 over the Civic.
Yep, it was a 4 door. It didn't feel really stable and planted like the Mazda3, but that might have been due to the tires as much as anything (195/65R15 vs. 205/50R17). Maybe you're correct that the suspension is softer on the sedan too. The biggest thing though was probably the comfort and feel: the Mazda seemed to fit me perfectly right away, while the Civic's steering wheel was too far away and didn't telescope, and it felt kind of cramped in there compared to the 3 and the Accord. I'm 5'10" and my head didn't actually rub with the sunroof - the 5'6" comment was an exaggeration - but it felt tight and I knew most of my friends would be at least brushing their hair on the ceiling. I didn't even pay the extra $800 for the tiny sunroof available on my 3 when I got it (I believe the one on the sedan is larger). I'd rather have the money, headroom, and reduced roof weight. Windows are good enough for me!
The Civic shifter probably is a little better, as they have always used rods instead of cables like the 3 has, and the gearing is certainly better, as 2nd gear is about 15% too high in the 3 IMHO, but the 3's shifter seemed like it was in the perfect spot for me and worked perfectly with the armrest. If I had a current gen Civic, I'm sure it would grow on me and I'd get used to it, and the extra fuel economy would make me happy, but I just didn't need any time to get used to the 3. I didn't discover the horrors of Mazda3 wheel hop and the laggy electronic throttle until a few days after buying it, but I've since corrected those with better tires and lower tire pressure, and they tweaked my throttle to work better somehow. I don't know how; it looks like they just hacked some wires into it. It's no cable-operated throttle - it even felt bad when going back and forth with the '98 Pathfinder 5-speed I had - but I've become used to the little bit of lag it still has. I played with a stiffer engine mount that made the car feel great to drive, but in the end the vibration wasn't worth it.
I bought my 3 in '04, and I didn't even look at the previous generation Civic. I just didn't like the looks and hadn't read good things about it so I only drove the Accord in '04. I didn't drive the new Civic until last year when a friend was looking for a car. We drove the Fit, Civic, Accord, and CR-V (auto) during that outing (as well as the Matrix, Camry (auto), 6, 3, Versa, Altima (auto), Forester, and Impreza). So in truth I didn't really personally compare the current Civic to the 3 as much as I would have if I had been trying them both out for the first time and looking for myself. It's tough for a new car to feel as good as the one you've gotten used to driving for 3 years!
It's nice to see that the hatchback 3 is available with the 2.0L now (in Canada, anyway). I'd definitely go for the lower cost and 10% better fuel economy if I were buying now.
I am actually a big fan of the Honda brand. I know many people who have owned them and they've been good cars in every way. But I don't think there's any category of cars that there's a obvious winner for. Everyone will find something different to like in all the options that are out there. I thought for sure my friend would, like me, pick the 3 after we went test-driving, but it didn't seem to interest her at all. She seemed to like the Accord the most until she tried the CR-V and loved the openness of the interior. At that point, we were in a whole other category and had to revisit dealers to check out the RAV4 and Forester, and she fell in love with the sportier driving feel, huge sunroof, and traditional design of the Forester. Plus, it had a 5-speed (she had driven a '93 Camry V6 5-speed for the previous 15 years). It wasn't even on the list when we first started looking! We didn't like Toyota's offerings at all.
I think I would enjoy driving the Si. I love running my engine to 7100 rpm and my buddy's '97 Acura Civic revs to 7600 rpm even more freely. High revs are fun when the engine seems to enjoy it, and they come in handy for passing and on-ramps. I still average better than EPA highway, BTW.
Was the Civic you drove a 4 door? I've heard that the sedan's suspension is softer and the driving feel isn't as good as the coupe's. Of course, you get two more doors for that price. I'm pretty sure if I had wanted a 4 door I would've gotten a 3 over the Civic.
Yep, it was a 4 door. It didn't feel really stable and planted like the Mazda3, but that might have been due to the tires as much as anything (195/65R15 vs. 205/50R17). Maybe you're correct that the suspension is softer on the sedan too. The biggest thing though was probably the comfort and feel: the Mazda seemed to fit me perfectly right away, while the Civic's steering wheel was too far away and didn't telescope, and it felt kind of cramped in there compared to the 3 and the Accord. I'm 5'10" and my head didn't actually rub with the sunroof - the 5'6" comment was an exaggeration - but it felt tight and I knew most of my friends would be at least brushing their hair on the ceiling. I didn't even pay the extra $800 for the tiny sunroof available on my 3 when I got it (I believe the one on the sedan is larger). I'd rather have the money, headroom, and reduced roof weight. Windows are good enough for me!
The Civic shifter probably is a little better, as they have always used rods instead of cables like the 3 has, and the gearing is certainly better, as 2nd gear is about 15% too high in the 3 IMHO, but the 3's shifter seemed like it was in the perfect spot for me and worked perfectly with the armrest. If I had a current gen Civic, I'm sure it would grow on me and I'd get used to it, and the extra fuel economy would make me happy, but I just didn't need any time to get used to the 3. I didn't discover the horrors of Mazda3 wheel hop and the laggy electronic throttle until a few days after buying it, but I've since corrected those with better tires and lower tire pressure, and they tweaked my throttle to work better somehow. I don't know how; it looks like they just hacked some wires into it. It's no cable-operated throttle - it even felt bad when going back and forth with the '98 Pathfinder 5-speed I had - but I've become used to the little bit of lag it still has. I played with a stiffer engine mount that made the car feel great to drive, but in the end the vibration wasn't worth it.
I bought my 3 in '04, and I didn't even look at the previous generation Civic. I just didn't like the looks and hadn't read good things about it so I only drove the Accord in '04. I didn't drive the new Civic until last year when a friend was looking for a car. We drove the Fit, Civic, Accord, and CR-V (auto) during that outing (as well as the Matrix, Camry (auto), 6, 3, Versa, Altima (auto), Forester, and Impreza). So in truth I didn't really personally compare the current Civic to the 3 as much as I would have if I had been trying them both out for the first time and looking for myself. It's tough for a new car to feel as good as the one you've gotten used to driving for 3 years!
It's nice to see that the hatchback 3 is available with the 2.0L now (in Canada, anyway). I'd definitely go for the lower cost and 10% better fuel economy if I were buying now.
I am actually a big fan of the Honda brand. I know many people who have owned them and they've been good cars in every way. But I don't think there's any category of cars that there's a obvious winner for. Everyone will find something different to like in all the options that are out there. I thought for sure my friend would, like me, pick the 3 after we went test-driving, but it didn't seem to interest her at all. She seemed to like the Accord the most until she tried the CR-V and loved the openness of the interior. At that point, we were in a whole other category and had to revisit dealers to check out the RAV4 and Forester, and she fell in love with the sportier driving feel, huge sunroof, and traditional design of the Forester. Plus, it had a 5-speed (she had driven a '93 Camry V6 5-speed for the previous 15 years). It wasn't even on the list when we first started looking! We didn't like Toyota's offerings at all.
I think I would enjoy driving the Si. I love running my engine to 7100 rpm and my buddy's '97 Acura Civic revs to 7600 rpm even more freely. High revs are fun when the engine seems to enjoy it, and they come in handy for passing and on-ramps. I still average better than EPA highway, BTW.
The only bad part I've read about a Corrolla was the electric steering being vague. I would have to drive one to see how I would like it and would need to know how long they've had electric steering on their cars and the reliability. Steering isn't the place I'm too fond of new ideas.
I agree w/ all your points, rpn. When I drove my friend's 3, I actually did feel like it felt a bit more planted than my Civic, because the steering felt just a bit heavier. As far as the rest of the car goes it all comes down to ergonomics specific to the individual. One of the reasons I wasn't a fan of the shifter in my friend's 3 was specifically because it wasn't in the perfect spot for my hand when resting my elbow on the armrest, so go figure (it's a good thing all the manufacturers make their interior spacing different!) Also some (all in the US?) of the current Civic models have a tilting and telescoping steering wheel so that helps as well. All your comments about the electronic throttle also apply to the Civic, more or less.
I checked Mazda's site and it looks like the 2 liter is still not available in the 5 door in the US. If that combo had been available here when I was shopping I'm 98% sure I would've gone in that direction instead of the Civic. Oh well. OTOH if I had test driven the 2.3 hatch it may have changed my mind too
Anyway, both great cars obviously. I sort of feel like among the 4 door versions (and obviously the 5 door since there is no Civic hatch) the 3 is a better all-around package for the driving enthusiast but it's very close.
I checked Mazda's site and it looks like the 2 liter is still not available in the 5 door in the US. If that combo had been available here when I was shopping I'm 98% sure I would've gone in that direction instead of the Civic. Oh well. OTOH if I had test driven the 2.3 hatch it may have changed my mind too
Anyway, both great cars obviously. I sort of feel like among the 4 door versions (and obviously the 5 door since there is no Civic hatch) the 3 is a better all-around package for the driving enthusiast but it's very close.
I test drove the 3 Grand touring, and found it to have decent power,good handling, and comfortable inside. That's also coming from a Mazda6.
I drove a Mazda 3 as a rental in '07, and while it was a fun car, I hated the red instrument lighting. As I said at the time, it was like experiencing a meltdown at the Springfield nuclear plant! It may seem a silly reason to turn down a car, but I wouldn't want to live with that for years.
The Corolla I drove as a rental in '06 was quiet, but it seemed nervous and tricky after the solidity of my compact Mercedes (which was almost 10 years old at that point!). What amused me was the fake wood trim surrounding the window switches on the doors. Just on the armrests, mind you; the rest of the interior was grey or black plastic.
The Corolla I drove as a rental in '06 was quiet, but it seemed nervous and tricky after the solidity of my compact Mercedes (which was almost 10 years old at that point!). What amused me was the fake wood trim surrounding the window switches on the doors. Just on the armrests, mind you; the rest of the interior was grey or black plastic.
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
I drove a Mazda 3 as a rental in '07, and while it was a fun car, I hated the red instrument lighting. As I said at the time, it was like experiencing a meltdown at the Springfield nuclear plant! It may seem a silly reason to turn down a car, but I wouldn't want to live with that for years.
I have the red panel lighting on my Mazda, and i simply turn it down when it becomes overwhelming.
I drove a Mazda 3 as a rental in '07, and while it was a fun car, I hated the red instrument lighting. As I said at the time, it was like experiencing a meltdown at the Springfield nuclear plant! It may seem a silly reason to turn down a car, but I wouldn't want to live with that for years.
I have the red panel lighting on my Mazda, and i simply turn it down when it becomes overwhelming.
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
The Civic Si base here is $21,110 plus shipping, MSRP.
To put it in perspective, the MSRP on my Yaris was $18599 + taxes.
The Civic Si base here is $21,110 plus shipping, MSRP.
To put it in perspective, the MSRP on my Yaris was $18599 + taxes.
I drove one as a rental car and thought it was great. It has much more space then the older Carolla's. In fact this 2009 model is actualy larger then the first generation Camry was!For a bottom end economy car I thought it had ecellent ride and handling. The one I had was tight as a drum. Now it is now Camry that is for sure! Mine had the Camry's 2.4 engine and was quick. I have never seen a cheap compact car yet that was perfect. Just so you know though I am 6'2" and 300lbs and built like a deffensive lineman in the NFL! I have owned a lot of compact and sub compact cars over the years and the Corolla is a great car not a perfect car. Since it is a new model design it is bound to need some revisions but nothign major. I think the 2.4 engine was a great option to make available on this little car!
Now considering I got my Camry new for $17,900 their is no way I would ever own a Carolla unless I could get the price down to $12,000 or less but that is just me why have a Carolla when you can have a Camry for the same money. My Camry is a LE so it is not some striped down CE model or anything like that either.
Now considering I got my Camry new for $17,900 their is no way I would ever own a Carolla unless I could get the price down to $12,000 or less but that is just me why have a Carolla when you can have a Camry for the same money. My Camry is a LE so it is not some striped down CE model or anything like that either.
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
I drove a Mazda 3 as a rental in '07, and while it was a fun car, I hated the red instrument lighting. As I said at the time, it was like experiencing a meltdown at the Springfield nuclear plant! It may seem a silly reason to turn down a car, but I wouldn't want to live with that for years.
I believe only the base sedan models have that instrument panel. I've never seen it.
I drove a Mazda 3 as a rental in '07, and while it was a fun car, I hated the red instrument lighting. As I said at the time, it was like experiencing a meltdown at the Springfield nuclear plant! It may seem a silly reason to turn down a car, but I wouldn't want to live with that for years.
I believe only the base sedan models have that instrument panel. I've never seen it.
2 door Yaris here with a/c, CD, and 5 speed MSRP around 13 grand.
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