Neon Vs Focus vs Cavalier

[tbm3fan]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
This is all in the future anyway, probably late next spring/early summer when I have the funds to pay off what I owe on the car, and sell it outright to a 3rd part or something. Looking to get a cheap, used car. I've basically narrowed it down to primarily looking at those 3. The Neon is right now my favorite, with a roomy interior, and feels relatively solid and sporty. Focus of course because it's not too different than the one I already had before, just different styling and interior. And finally, Cavalier. Because of course I owned one, I know I like how it drives and rides. All of these would be 03-05 models more than likely if I were to buy. And all are around $3-5k from the few I've looked at. Any reason I would go with one over the other, or not? I know the Neon has a timing belt that would have to be changed, but that's about all I know about them.


Well I drive a 2004 Focus ZTS sedan with the 2.3L engine and a 5 speed stick. Now has 120,000 miles and it has run flawlessly. Great handling car on the wheels/tires the car came with. Engine is very quick and really pulls between 3-4000 rpm. Can easily out run a bunch of cars merging onto a freeway. Mileage ranges between 30-33.5 depending on the season and the gas for that season. Supposedly a low spot for this year were the brakes. I still have the original pads on all four corners and they are at 50% right now. Being a stick might have a lot to do with that. This replaced my 1986 Mazda 626 which went 360,000 miles. The Mazda was a great car but no match in handling. nimbleness, or acceleration.

 

[VNTS]

I dont see any 95 Civics around, they cycled thru the local junkyard 5 years ago, I guess too many of the kids at the time thought they were fast and blew em up because a lot of them that came in were decorated with wings, primer paint job, duct tape over the wheel arches to hide the rust and other garbage tacked onto them. Serously they were rot buckets and 10yr car at best.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
I dont see any 95 Civics around, they cycled thru the local junkyard 5 years ago, I guess too many of the kids at the time thought they were fast and blew em up because a lot of them that came in were decorated with wings, primer paint job, duct tape over the wheel arches to hide the rust and other garbage tacked onto them. Serously they were rot buckets and 10yr car at best.


I run into former owner (now a manager at Target) of my 95 Civic. Still driving it with 340,000 miles on it and no motor work besides timing belt. It is getting tired though. I sold with 225k. He said a little rust he took care of in wheel wells.

Go to Lawerance MA if you want to see old Civic's! My wife works in town there.

 

[JHZR2]

I like the idea of an MT neon.

My mother has the neon powertrain in her 97 breeze, and besides a head gasket external leak, which seems to have been common, the engine has been perfect. She gets around 32 MPG in the car, which is a lot bigger and heavier than a Neon, plus it has an AT.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: rjundi

My wife's 180k 96 Civic in 2005 in need of timing belt and major tuneup posted at university classified with sale with many responses for $3000.


College kids will overpay for anything when its mommy and daddy's money.

 

[zeezee]

I've had two Ecotec cars. One is a 2004 Cavalier. I've also had a '90s Neon with manual transmission.

For shear reliability, the Ecotec Cavalier is hard to beat. People have given the Focus high marks but I would place it and the Neon beneath the Cavalier for reliability.

I generally avoid Chrysler automatic transmissions from this era.

If taken care of, all three should be fine. I would go with the Cavalier, from personal experience. It's reliable and easy to perform oil changes. I've only ever had to replace a sway bar bushing and vent door actuator (from underneath the dash) in over 100k miles. Both were trivial and inexpensive repairs.

The Cavalier interior leaves a lot to be desired, but it is functional (the Focus is probably on top for this). The Neon interior is a mixed bag depending upon its year. They got much better toward the end of the car's run. First gen. Neons had horrible interiors.

One problem I found with my Neon was lack of balance / weight distribution in the car. I never felt that the car was very safe.

 

[lovcom]

The OP is stuck buying junk! The Neon, Cacalier, and Focus are all junk compared to much better Japanese offerings.

Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.


So he can wipe his bottom with it?
You have real people in this thread talking about their experiences, and you recommend people read that stupid magazine for answers? That just makes no sense.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I like the idea of an MT neon.

My mother has the neon powertrain in her 97 breeze, and besides a head gasket external leak, which seems to have been common, the engine has been perfect. She gets around 32 MPG in the car, which is a lot bigger and heavier than a Neon, plus it has an AT.


My 98 Neon R/T was a gem. Honest 36 mpg and terrific fun to drive. Very rare combo in an econobox.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
The OP is stuck buying junk! The Neon, Cacalier, and Focus are all junk compared to much better Japanese offerings.

Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.



Troll, troll, troll my boat, right down BITOG way..........

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: lovcom
The OP is stuck buying junk! The Neon, Cacalier, and Focus are all junk compared to much better Japanese offerings.

Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.



Troll, troll, troll my boat, right down BITOG way..........


You disagree with my opinion, so then you call me a troll? Your attitude is overkill. Again. Perhaps you need to learn to be more tolerant of other views, even those that correct, and go against yours, which are wrong. ;-)

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.


So he can wipe his bottom with it?
You have real people in this thread talking about their experiences, and you recommend people read that stupid magazine for answers? That just makes no sense.


This thread is full of single or few instances of experiences. That "stupid magazine" is influeinced by MANY actual owners of those cars.

Perhaps your local adult school offers Intro to Statistics course; and if so I would suggest you take it. ;-)

 

[SteveSRT8]

Who would buy into stats generated by mail? No proof of ownership is even required.

CR is only suitable for judging appliances, not automobiles, IMO.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: lovcom
The OP is stuck buying junk! The Neon, Cacalier, and Focus are all junk compared to much better Japanese offerings.

Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.



Troll, troll, troll my boat, right down BITOG way..........


You disagree with my opinion, so then you call me a troll? Your attitude is overkill. Again. Perhaps you need to learn to be more tolerant of other views, even those that correct, and go against yours, which are wrong. ;-)


No, I disagree with the way you shove your opinion, which isn't expressed as opinion, but rather as irrefutable fact, down everybody's throat in the rudest manner possible.

Perhaps you should work on tact and delivery rather than concerning yourself with how tolerant I am or am not of others.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Who would buy into stats generated by mail? No proof of ownership is even required.

CR is only suitable for judging appliances, not automobiles, IMO.


Plus you have gems like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe. Nobody should be surprised as to which one scored higher in CR's "scientific" approach.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Plus you have gems like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe. Nobody should be surprised as to which one scored higher in CR's "scientific" approach.

I just checked and CR rates them both very similarly. The have similar reliability ratings and both are ranked as a "CR Good Bet" when considering used cars.


Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Who would buy into stats generated by mail? No proof of ownership is even required.

CR is only suitable for judging appliances, not automobiles, IMO.


Even if you don't agree with their way of reporting reliability, they still do a lot of in-dept tests on cars, tires, batteries etc. that many people find useful.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Plus you have gems like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe. Nobody should be surprised as to which one scored higher in CR's "scientific" approach.

I just checked and CR rates them both very similarly. The have similar reliability ratings and both are ranked as a "CR Good Bet" when considering used cars.


Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Who would buy into stats generated by mail? No proof of ownership is even required.

CR is only suitable for judging appliances, not automobiles, IMO.


Even if you don't agree with their way of reporting reliability, they still do a lot of in-dept tests on cars, tires, batteries etc. that many people find useful.



How about the Toyota Corolla and Chevy Prizm. Same car, different badge. The corolla scored excellently in reliability "Surveys" and the prizm wasn't anywhere nearly as good. Come on now, the bias is everywhere and it's extremely clear.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Lets all pool our moneys and buy him a subscription to ConsumerReports magazine,the used car edition.


So he can wipe his bottom with it?
You have real people in this thread talking about their experiences, and you recommend people read that stupid magazine for answers? That just makes no sense.


This thread is full of single or few instances of experiences. That "stupid magazine" is influeinced by MANY actual owners of those cars.

Perhaps your local adult school offers Intro to Statistics course; and if so I would suggest you take it. ;-)


You've suggested a worthless magazine, the last thing I will do is listen to your opinion on me taking a stats course. I, like a lot of people in this thread, have relevant experience, which is clearly what the OP was after when he posted this. CR is a POS.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Nick R


How about the Toyota Corolla and Chevy Prizm. Same car, different badge. The corolla scored excellently in reliability "Surveys" and the prizm wasn't anywhere nearly as good. Come on now, the bias is everywhere and it's extremely clear.


I would be interested in seeing these scores. The cars are old enough that much of the info on them no longer appears on the CR website.

The operator of the website TrueDelta actually wrote an article about this topic in 2011. Here's what he said about the Prizm/Corolla:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/unraveling-the-mystery-of-consumer-reports-brand-spread/
Quote:
in the 1992 issue, the Prizm scored lower than the Toyota Corolla, but just by a little, not “way lower” as Lutz states. In the 1995 and 1996 issues the Prizm actually scored higher than the Corolla, with the margin in the former year a substantial ten points.


CR rated both the Prizm and Corolla as "Best Used Cars" in this article. They actually included more years of the Prizm, but that may have to do with the value of the Chevy dropping faster than the Toyota.
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/08/best-used-cars.html

Here's something they wrote in a 2000 article on small cars, giving some praise and criticism to both (I'd provide a link, but it's behind the pay wall of CR's website):
Quote:
The Toyota Corolla and its near twin, the Chevrolet Prizm, cost about the same as the Sentra and provide 30 mpg. They're also well executed and have inviting accommodations up front, but each suffers from a cramped rear seat.


Here's a bit of info that may help to explain why there are sometimes differences in the scores between similar models. This is referring to the Vibe and Matrix:
Quote:
Because the Matrix and Vibe are essentially similar vehicles with different styling, the two scored very closely in our testing. As a result, we’ll discuss them together. The few differences in their scores resulted primarily from the different drivetrains we chose (AWD vs. front-wheel drive) and body design.


Is the CR method perfect? Probably not, but no method is perfect. I think people's rumors, ranting and echoing about CR's "bias" probably outstrip actual issues with their investigating/ranking/testing.

 

[tgferg67]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666

Here's a bit of info that may help to explain why there are sometimes differences in the scores between similar models. This is referring to the Vibe and Matrix:
Quote:
Because the Matrix and Vibe are essentially similar vehicles with different styling, the two scored very closely in our testing. As a result, we’ll discuss them together. The few differences in their scores resulted primarily from the different drivetrains we chose (AWD vs. front-wheel drive) and body design.




Also the Vibe and Matrix were built at completely different assembly plants, which could account for differences in quality/reliability.

Matrix - Cambridge, Ontario - Canada
Vibe - Fremont, California