Negotiating used vehicle price at the dealer

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: JTK
given you don't know what they've got into the vehicle cost wise.


I don't care what they have into it. If they can get it from a widow for $500 more power to them.


How do you gauge how good of a deal you got?

 

[eljefino]

Compare to other dealers/ truecar/ people online/ KBB/ just gotta go with the gut feeling.

New cars we can get invoice pricing, holdback, and incentives from operations like "Automotive News" as well as "days worth of stock." If there's a bunch in stock I expect a "mini-deal" of a few hundred over invoice; if they're in demand and hard to get, well...

Used cars have way more markup. IDK how the "Hollywood accounting" goes but if Service charges Sales 10 hrs at $120 an hour then "Sales" loses that $1200 on the deal, the owner still makes money and might make yet more on the financing.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: JTK

How do you gauge how good of a deal you got?


...when I pay for a car at its TRADE-IN value.
...so if I choose to take out a loan I won't owe more than the car is worth...
I got my Camry that way and while I still owe $700, its trade-in value after 4.5 yrs is conservatively $3k.

 

[javacontour]

It's not a competition. If you like the vehicle and like the price you paid, you got a good deal.

Sometimes it's not worth grinding for that extra $100 off. If you are going to drive the vehicle for 8 years, that's like $1/month over the life of the vehicle.

Sometimes, you have to recognize your time is worth something.

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: JTK
given you don't know what they've got into the vehicle cost wise.


I don't care what they have into it. If they can get it from a widow for $500 more power to them.


How do you gauge how good of a deal you got?

 

[FowVay]

I am presently trying to purchase a 2015 Chevrolet SS with a 6 speed manual. The car was built in Nov. 2014, sat on a dealers lot until Jun. 2015, was sold and then returned 9 months later because the owner didn't like the manual transmission.

The dealership is asking only a few thousand less than a brand new model sells for. I researched to see what a fair price would be if I were to buy from a private seller and that is how I came up with my offer of $37,000. The dealership wants $42,000 and the product simply isn't worth that price.

If the car sat on the lot for 3+ months as a new vehicle it will most likely sit that long as a used vehicle.

The local VW dealership gave one of my friends $8,000 for his trade-in and then sold the same car without even vacuuming it out to another friend for $14,000. Had these two friends known each other all of this could have been avoided.

No, I have no faith in what a dealership representative has to say about anything. To believe they only have a few hundred dollars to negotiate with is naive.

 

[Lubener]

The sales people know they will not have any problems moving a one year old truck below book value. Pay the price or walk away.

 

[JTK]

^^ This.

While I applaud and agree with everyone's bargaining techniques and skills in this thread, pretty much none of them apply with trucks these days. Hot commodity.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: JTK
^^ This.

While I applaud and agree with everyone's bargaining techniques and skills in this thread, pretty much none of them apply with trucks these days. Hot commodity.



Both of the above two posts are 100% correct!

 

[otis24]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
Trading in your old car at the dealer is very convenient but it will cost you dearly. In any car transaction you always trade convenience for significantly increased cost. If you want to minimize your cost never talk about trade in during any car transaction until AFTER you agree to a drive out price on the car your are purchasing. Including a trade in into your new or used car price negotiation will mark you as a rube. Mixing a "trade in" into a car purchase negotiation allows the dealer to play games with the value of each car depending on what they perceive is your weakness. Mixing in a trade in guarantees that you never really know for sure what the new (or used) car cost you or what your trade in was actually worth. In almost every case a buyer will lose when mixing a trade in with a purchase of a car.

So first negotiate the new car cost. Then only after the drive out price has been settled in writing, you can offer to sell them your old car. They will trot out their used car appraiser and inspect your old car and make you an offer. You will actually find out what your old car is worth to them. If you can settle on an agreeable price let them have it. If the dealer is not interested take it to Carmax or the like and sell it to them. IF no dealer wants it because it is too old, sell it or give it away on Craiglist. In any event believe it or not you will come out better than doing a trade in deal. Remember there is absolutely no such thing as a free lunch in any business transaction...especially at a car dealer, and you can take that to the bank.

i

Problem is, in my experience, is that buyers want a new car at wholesale price (or below) and want retail price (plus a grand or two) for their trade. A mid-size sedan has about $1500 mark-up. Dealer will make a profit on their car or on your trade. If a new car isnt worth retail price, your trade isnt worth retail price.

 

[dwcopple]

Originally Posted By: otis24
If a new car isnt worth retail price, your trade isnt worth retail price.
But it is usually worth a HECK of a lot more than the low ball offer the stealership gives.

 

[pottymouth]

The dealer is in business to profit. Why would he offer anything close to retail value?

Privately selling used cars is not only inconvenient, it can be costly. Dealers pay for staff and facilities to clean and repair trades, advertising and prime real estate to attract buyers, regulatory fees and taxes, additional staff for sales and accounting, utilities, etc. They are also taking a big risk on a trade since those trading a car in can be just as dishonest as the worst car dealer out there. Any concealed/undisclosed damage or issue is their problem once they accept the vehicle. In some states the dealer has to guarantee the car will pass inspection even when sold as-is. He has to deal with all the lookie-Lou's that just want to joyride and waste his time. Even if he just turns around and sends the car to auction there are transportation, clerical and auction costs involved. On top of all that, the dealer owner would actually like to make some money for himself.

Trading a car eliminates a lot of risks and allows the new car buyer to perfectly time the sale of the old car. That's worth money to a lot of people. Same goes for things like scrap metal. If you call a scrapper to take a junk car away, do you expect him to pay you close to the actual scrap value of the car, or do you think it's reasonable for him to want to cover his costs and still make some money for his time and effort?

It's almost as puzzling to me when people think that what the dealer paid for the trade has any bearing on the selling price. The value of the car is the value of the car. When he takes a trade that ends up having major issues that need to be fixed, would you offer to pay him more for it since he had to put more money into it? Let's say a Subaru dealer took a VW TDI on trade the day before dieselgate hit the news. The market value of the car dropped significantly but he still has the same money in it. Can he still get that or does the actual market determine what he can sell it for?

I wouldn't call a low offer on a trade unfair or dishonest. The dealer is telling you what the car is worth to him. Is it dishonest when a buyer low balls the dealer on the new car?

 

[crazyoildude]

Car dealers generally are not the most honest people on the planet..If you don't know all the games and scams associated with buying a vehicle go with someone who knows the ropes or you are going to get ripped off..
My neighbor went to purchase a new explorer and went with a friend of his that sold chevy's for a lot of years. He got a great deal when the car dealer thought they were going to bang him for financing (they did) but he paid the car off the next month in full and saved a ton of money.

 

[dwcopple]

Originally Posted By: JTK
pretty much none of them apply with trucks these days. Hot commodity.
That is why you lease them for 2 years for $240/mo, beat the pi$$ out of them, and get another new one in 24 months.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: dwcopple
Originally Posted By: JTK
pretty much none of them apply with trucks these days. Hot commodity.
That is why you lease them for 2 years for $240/mo, beat the pi$$ out of them, and get another new one in 24 months.

Right.

No sense in battling the market here. The time for bargains on full size trucks and SUV's was few year ago coming off the market crash and sky high oil prices with no end in sight.

Now the deals are on the other end ; small vehicles like the Chrysler 200 Dodge Dart, Chevy Cruise and such. Also, new and late model Dodge/Chrysler mini vans.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: dwcopple
Originally Posted By: JTK
pretty much none of them apply with trucks these days. Hot commodity.
That is why you lease them for 2 years for $240/mo, beat the pi$$ out of them, and get another new one in 24 months.


Maybe, but reading the fine-print for most of these light truck leases, they're all 10K miles/year with $0.25/mile over. Anything under $300/mo requires money down aside from the normal TTL and fees as well. I'm not big on leasing, but if you're like most of the guys I know who swap trucks out like I do socks, It makes sense over financing them for $500/mo for 84 months.

I know I've been enlisted to car shop with family and friends and have yet to pay for over miles, worn tires or dings and scratches on a lease return, so you can make it work if you've got some smarts and patience.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
Originally Posted By: JTK
pretty much none of them apply with trucks these days. Hot commodity.
That is why you lease them for 2 years for $240/mo, beat the pi$$ out of them, and get another new one in 24 months.


Maybe, but reading the fine-print for most of these light truck leases, they're all 10K miles/year with $0.25/mile over. Anything under $300/mo requires money down aside from the normal TTL and fees as well. I'm not big on leasing, but if you're like most of the guys I know who swap trucks out like I do socks, It makes sense over financing them for $500/mo for 84 months.

I know I've been enlisted to car shop with family and friends and have yet to pay for over miles, worn tires or dings and scratches on a lease return, so you can make it work if you've got some smarts and patience.


Your right-but if your an average driver the additional mileage comes out to an extra $42.00/month. So your lease payment will be $300.00/month approximate after taxes and license. Still not bad.

 

[dwcopple]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Your right-but if your an average driver the additional mileage comes out to an extra $42.00/month. So your lease payment will be $300.00/month approximate after taxes and license. Still not bad.

incorrect. My lease is for 24mos/24K miles and I pay $247/mo and put less than $800 down (as I remember it) at signing. All maintenance is free for 2 years (the whole lease) and I will surely not have to do tires either.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: dwcopple
Originally Posted By: CKN
Your right-but if your an average driver the additional mileage comes out to an extra $42.00/month. So your lease payment will be $300.00/month approximate after taxes and license. Still not bad.

incorrect. My lease is for 24mos/24K miles and I pay $247/mo and put less than $800 down (as I remember it) at signing. All maintenance is free for 2 years (the whole lease) and I will surely not have to do tires either.


That's a good lease. But if you consider your down payment ($800.00) prorated by $24.00/months that puts your lease at $280.00/month. So-I wasn't far off.

 

[CKN]

The correction above is $33.00/month at 24 months =$280.00.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: CKN
That's a good lease. But if you consider your down payment ($800.00) prorated by $24.00/months that puts your lease at $280.00/month. So-I wasn't far off.


It probably wasn't a down payment. Just fees due at signing for tax, title and license. I had a friend that leased a Cobalt for $160/mo and the fees at signing were around $600. Then just bought it at the lease end. Actually he financed the buyout and his new payments on the loan this time were $160. I guess the liked the low car payments.