Negotiating used vehicle price at the dealer
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Cash isn't going to help you at a dealer, they want you to finance so they can make more money.
That's my experience too. In fact at times I almost feel like they lose interest when I say I'm a cash customer.
Cash isn't going to help you at a dealer, they want you to finance so they can make more money.
That's my experience too. In fact at times I almost feel like they lose interest when I say I'm a cash customer.
Used 2015 truck? You might be able to get a better deal on a new truck.
Email/negotiate the sale with the internet sales manager and try to buy on the last day of the month. They can get desperate for one more sale on the last day of the month.
ALWAYS buy on total price out the door. Only suckers buy on monthly payment. They are trained with the paper non-sense where they slide a paper across the table and tell you to write down what you can afford per month. I literally crumpled up the paper, pitched it into the trash can, and told him "none of your darn business what I can or cant afford per month." Get me the out the door price or I walk."
Email/negotiate the sale with the internet sales manager and try to buy on the last day of the month. They can get desperate for one more sale on the last day of the month.
ALWAYS buy on total price out the door. Only suckers buy on monthly payment. They are trained with the paper non-sense where they slide a paper across the table and tell you to write down what you can afford per month. I literally crumpled up the paper, pitched it into the trash can, and told him "none of your darn business what I can or cant afford per month." Get me the out the door price or I walk."
Originally Posted By: Donald
I am talking to 2 dealers about a used 2015 truck. Both refuse to dicker with the price. Its below the NADA, KBB, Truecar, but I thought I could always get the price down a little.
This was new car dealers selling trade-ins, not a used car jockey.
You sound a lot like my dad. He's what most salespeople would call a lookie-Lou. He is constantly looking at cars, test driving them, vacillating between different makes and models, then makes super low-ball offers. No matter how good the price the seller offers, he needs more off. He's even had a couple instances where the seller accepted his offer and he then lowered it.
Ultimately, he gets a car when my mom gets fed-up and insists. Then he has buyers remorse and blames her for getting a "bad" deal. I feel bad for the rookies who don't yet know he is not shopping for a car but for entertainment.
I am talking to 2 dealers about a used 2015 truck. Both refuse to dicker with the price. Its below the NADA, KBB, Truecar, but I thought I could always get the price down a little.
This was new car dealers selling trade-ins, not a used car jockey.
You sound a lot like my dad. He's what most salespeople would call a lookie-Lou. He is constantly looking at cars, test driving them, vacillating between different makes and models, then makes super low-ball offers. No matter how good the price the seller offers, he needs more off. He's even had a couple instances where the seller accepted his offer and he then lowered it.
Ultimately, he gets a car when my mom gets fed-up and insists. Then he has buyers remorse and blames her for getting a "bad" deal. I feel bad for the rookies who don't yet know he is not shopping for a car but for entertainment.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Cash isn't going to help you at a dealer, they want you to finance so they can make more money.
That's my experience too. In fact at times I almost feel like they lose interest when I say I'm a cash customer.
Exactly cash is the last thing a dealer wants. They want the finance reserve money, a shot at selling an extended warranty, and the extras. Or the less scrupulous dealers want the reserves and pack the deal.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Cash isn't going to help you at a dealer, they want you to finance so they can make more money.
That's my experience too. In fact at times I almost feel like they lose interest when I say I'm a cash customer.
Exactly cash is the last thing a dealer wants. They want the finance reserve money, a shot at selling an extended warranty, and the extras. Or the less scrupulous dealers want the reserves and pack the deal.
My mechanic who is fairly tight with the local no haggle dealer tells me that they make barely any margin on car sales and their profit comes from financing and extended warranties. They have an incentive to move as many cars as possible to get more shots at selling financing and warranties.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Donald
Its below the NADA, KBB, Truecar, but I thought I could always get the price down a little.
Good luck - I got them to knock a few $$ off my used F150. It was in the same boat - cheaper than the online sites, cheaper than comparables. They knew that as much as I did and they held firm. I took it as it was already a great price for a great truck.
Same thing happened with my tC, it was already below blue book and a good price. They hardly wanted to move. I think I got it for maybe $200 or $250 off what they were asking.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Its below the NADA, KBB, Truecar, but I thought I could always get the price down a little.
Good luck - I got them to knock a few $$ off my used F150. It was in the same boat - cheaper than the online sites, cheaper than comparables. They knew that as much as I did and they held firm. I took it as it was already a great price for a great truck.
Same thing happened with my tC, it was already below blue book and a good price. They hardly wanted to move. I think I got it for maybe $200 or $250 off what they were asking.
New mid-model trucks stick at $43,000.00. And there are mild rebates but not big ones. All three manufacturers are selling plenty of new trucks-how much less than a new truck do you expect?
If you can save $5,000 grand below the price of a new one your doing good. IMHO.
If you can save $5,000 grand below the price of a new one your doing good. IMHO.
Last time I negotiated on a used car price the dealer just wouldn't budge. In November I went to look at a sports car as the season was coming to a close. Car was listed at $12,500 but $10,500-$11,000 was what it was really worth. After spending an hour going all over that car, I went home without a deal. They kept calling me back every 3-5 weeks to see if I was still interested, but w/o lowering the price. I told them no. The last call I got was in March, so this sporty car had been sitting on the lot, much of it under snow, for 4 months. And I have no doubt they still had it after 6 months. They weren't going to let it go for even $11,500.
I ended up finding a much better car via private party with a fraction of the mileage (12K vs. 48K) for the same $12K they really wanted. This dealer certainly didn't adhere to the Cashmoney game plan.
I ended up finding a much better car via private party with a fraction of the mileage (12K vs. 48K) for the same $12K they really wanted. This dealer certainly didn't adhere to the Cashmoney game plan.
If it's a good price and you like it, buy it. If it's a popular model, they know it will sell. That's the one thing I learned being in car sales, no matter how low you price a car, customers always think you can go lower. I saw a lot of people loose out on just the car they were looking for because a good deal wasn't "good enough". Retail price IS a fair price. Below retail is even better. You can always find something cheaper if you wait long enough, but what's your time worth?
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Originally Posted By: otis24
If it's a good price and you like it, buy it. If it's a popular model, they know it will sell. That's the one thing I learned being in car sales, no matter how low you price a car, customers always think you can go lower. I saw a lot of people loose out on just the car they were looking for because a good deal wasn't "good enough". Retail price IS a fair price. Below retail is even better. You can always find something cheaper if you wait long enough, but what's your time worth?
I generally agree with your sentiment. I think people sometimes nickel and dime too much without keeping in mind the big picture.
But I'm afraid the auto industry created this monster to begin with by going with the haggling model of selling cars. That tends to breed distrust. If cars sold on a fixed price basis like many other goods, consumers wouldn't worry about getting taken and wouldn't even worry about leaving money on the table for dealers. Heck, we pay huge mark-ups for soda pop, cell phones, etc. and nobody questions it.
As for me, I'm not sure I'll ever buy another car from a haggle dealer. I've had such good experiences with the two no haggle places I've dealt with that it would be like pulling teeth to go back.
If it's a good price and you like it, buy it. If it's a popular model, they know it will sell. That's the one thing I learned being in car sales, no matter how low you price a car, customers always think you can go lower. I saw a lot of people loose out on just the car they were looking for because a good deal wasn't "good enough". Retail price IS a fair price. Below retail is even better. You can always find something cheaper if you wait long enough, but what's your time worth?
I generally agree with your sentiment. I think people sometimes nickel and dime too much without keeping in mind the big picture.
But I'm afraid the auto industry created this monster to begin with by going with the haggling model of selling cars. That tends to breed distrust. If cars sold on a fixed price basis like many other goods, consumers wouldn't worry about getting taken and wouldn't even worry about leaving money on the table for dealers. Heck, we pay huge mark-ups for soda pop, cell phones, etc. and nobody questions it.
As for me, I'm not sure I'll ever buy another car from a haggle dealer. I've had such good experiences with the two no haggle places I've dealt with that it would be like pulling teeth to go back.
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
Negotiating a price on a used car is super easy if first you take the time to understand the car selling business.
Rule number 1 is don't ever negotiate price on a car transaction sitting at the dealer. Negotiating price while at the dealer marks you as the average sucker that they can screw on the deal. Instead once you have identified the specific car you want you need to leave the dealer and go home. Tell the salesperson you will think it over and give him a call to discuss price. All price negotiations must be done over the phone or via email. Note that the dealer hates that because they have no leverage or power over you if you are not sitting there investing your time at the dealer. They will do everything they can to keep you sitting there at the dealer.
Rule number 2 when you call is ask for a full drive out price in writing on the vehicle. That means getting the full total cost of the car plus tax, tag, and title ("drive out" price). Do not negotiate any line items or any other costs. Negotiating individual line items is another sign that the buyer is a sucker. Most line items on an dealer car invoice are pure [censored] and don't matter. Negotiate the bottom line cost only and get it in writing via email. Reply to them with your fair counter offer by phone or in writing and wait their reply. Be patient, act like you have all the time in the world and let them know you may shop and negotiate other dealers at same time.
It is important to understand a car dealer's business. 1) Every used car sitting on the lot is financed ("on plan" in industry lingo) and interest on each has to be paid every month. 2) Every used car on the lot is worth less each month (depreciation) 3) The longer the car sits the more it costs the dealer and the more likely they are to want to sell at a discount. 4) after a car has sat on the lot for 90 days most big dealers send the car to the auction or to a secondary down scale lot where it will be sold to marginal credit buyers, etc.
Offer a fair price over the phone or via email and let them know you have all the time in the world. It is critical to understand that they are the ones that want to sell as quickly as possible although they are masters at hiding that fact.
You also have to understand supply and demand for the car you want. If the dealer has a desirable super hot demand car in mint condition they are not going to discount it all because it will sell fast at asking price. They know exactly what cars sell fast and would be idiots to sell one at a discount. If the car is less desirable for any reason (higher miles, not mint, bad color, previous damage, low demand model,etc) than of course they must discount to get it off the lot unless of course they get a sucker to buy it.
Also if you come to an agreement via email or phone let them know that if the total drive out number changes by even a dollar that you will immediate walk out and not return under any circumstances.
It is important to be polite, courteous and 100% professional while negotiating - this is a simple business transaction. It is not personal. The dealer needs to make a profit on the sale and you need to make the purchase at the minimum expense. Once they understand that you know the business and are not the usual bozo, they usually stop most but not all the typical slimy sales weasel behavior.
In short, think rationally, not emotionally. I bought my Civic used with 22k miles on it and 3.5 years old. It had an MSRP of $24500 new (they had the window sticker from new). It had dings and bumps on the side, pretty significant. But I use a car to get to work, not a car show so I couldn't care less if there's a dent in the side if it's cheap and runs. I made a lowball offer, they said, "come in and let's figure out a price." I said, "nah, I'm not into you running back and forth to your boss wasting my time. That's my offer, take it or leave it." I gave him my email and said I don't play games and don't care if I buy the car. If they want to sell, email me. Otherwise I don't want to hear from them. About 2 weeks later they sold me the car. 150k later, getting it for about 11500 seems like a steal.
Negotiating a price on a used car is super easy if first you take the time to understand the car selling business.
Rule number 1 is don't ever negotiate price on a car transaction sitting at the dealer. Negotiating price while at the dealer marks you as the average sucker that they can screw on the deal. Instead once you have identified the specific car you want you need to leave the dealer and go home. Tell the salesperson you will think it over and give him a call to discuss price. All price negotiations must be done over the phone or via email. Note that the dealer hates that because they have no leverage or power over you if you are not sitting there investing your time at the dealer. They will do everything they can to keep you sitting there at the dealer.
Rule number 2 when you call is ask for a full drive out price in writing on the vehicle. That means getting the full total cost of the car plus tax, tag, and title ("drive out" price). Do not negotiate any line items or any other costs. Negotiating individual line items is another sign that the buyer is a sucker. Most line items on an dealer car invoice are pure [censored] and don't matter. Negotiate the bottom line cost only and get it in writing via email. Reply to them with your fair counter offer by phone or in writing and wait their reply. Be patient, act like you have all the time in the world and let them know you may shop and negotiate other dealers at same time.
It is important to understand a car dealer's business. 1) Every used car sitting on the lot is financed ("on plan" in industry lingo) and interest on each has to be paid every month. 2) Every used car on the lot is worth less each month (depreciation) 3) The longer the car sits the more it costs the dealer and the more likely they are to want to sell at a discount. 4) after a car has sat on the lot for 90 days most big dealers send the car to the auction or to a secondary down scale lot where it will be sold to marginal credit buyers, etc.
Offer a fair price over the phone or via email and let them know you have all the time in the world. It is critical to understand that they are the ones that want to sell as quickly as possible although they are masters at hiding that fact.
You also have to understand supply and demand for the car you want. If the dealer has a desirable super hot demand car in mint condition they are not going to discount it all because it will sell fast at asking price. They know exactly what cars sell fast and would be idiots to sell one at a discount. If the car is less desirable for any reason (higher miles, not mint, bad color, previous damage, low demand model,etc) than of course they must discount to get it off the lot unless of course they get a sucker to buy it.
Also if you come to an agreement via email or phone let them know that if the total drive out number changes by even a dollar that you will immediate walk out and not return under any circumstances.
It is important to be polite, courteous and 100% professional while negotiating - this is a simple business transaction. It is not personal. The dealer needs to make a profit on the sale and you need to make the purchase at the minimum expense. Once they understand that you know the business and are not the usual bozo, they usually stop most but not all the typical slimy sales weasel behavior.
In short, think rationally, not emotionally. I bought my Civic used with 22k miles on it and 3.5 years old. It had an MSRP of $24500 new (they had the window sticker from new). It had dings and bumps on the side, pretty significant. But I use a car to get to work, not a car show so I couldn't care less if there's a dent in the side if it's cheap and runs. I made a lowball offer, they said, "come in and let's figure out a price." I said, "nah, I'm not into you running back and forth to your boss wasting my time. That's my offer, take it or leave it." I gave him my email and said I don't play games and don't care if I buy the car. If they want to sell, email me. Otherwise I don't want to hear from them. About 2 weeks later they sold me the car. 150k later, getting it for about 11500 seems like a steal.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Yep. A lot of these places offer good deals but screw you on the trade in. Like cashmoney said, always negotiate the out the door price including the trade-in so that you control the variables.
Exactly. In addition I never NEED a car when I'm shopping- so I can always walk.
Yep. A lot of these places offer good deals but screw you on the trade in. Like cashmoney said, always negotiate the out the door price including the trade-in so that you control the variables.
Exactly. In addition I never NEED a car when I'm shopping- so I can always walk.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Yep. A lot of these places offer good deals but screw you on the trade in. Like cashmoney said, always negotiate the out the door price including the trade-in so that you control the variables.
Exactly. In addition I never NEED a car when I'm shopping- so I can always walk.
That's why your trade in should be a car with a dead short that kills batteries overnight, almost 300k miles, and a salvage title. Saving $500 on a new car is a great way to get rid of a car like that.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Yep. A lot of these places offer good deals but screw you on the trade in. Like cashmoney said, always negotiate the out the door price including the trade-in so that you control the variables.
Exactly. In addition I never NEED a car when I'm shopping- so I can always walk.
That's why your trade in should be a car with a dead short that kills batteries overnight, almost 300k miles, and a salvage title. Saving $500 on a new car is a great way to get rid of a car like that.
Trading in your old car at the dealer is very convenient but it will cost you dearly. In any car transaction you always trade convenience for significantly increased cost. If you want to minimize your cost never talk about trade in during any car transaction until AFTER you agree to a drive out price on the car your are purchasing. Including a trade in into your new or used car price negotiation will mark you as a rube. Mixing a "trade in" into a car purchase negotiation allows the dealer to play games with the value of each car depending on what they perceive is your weakness. Mixing in a trade in guarantees that you never really know for sure what the new (or used) car cost you or what your trade in was actually worth. In almost every case a buyer will lose when mixing a trade in with a purchase of a car.
So first negotiate the new car cost. Then only after the drive out price has been settled in writing, you can offer to sell them your old car. They will trot out their used car appraiser and inspect your old car and make you an offer. You will actually find out what your old car is worth to them. If you can settle on an agreeable price let them have it. If the dealer is not interested take it to Carmax or the like and sell it to them. IF no dealer wants it because it is too old, sell it or give it away on Craiglist. In any event believe it or not you will come out better than doing a trade in deal. Remember there is absolutely no such thing as a free lunch in any business transaction...especially at a car dealer, and you can take that to the bank.
So first negotiate the new car cost. Then only after the drive out price has been settled in writing, you can offer to sell them your old car. They will trot out their used car appraiser and inspect your old car and make you an offer. You will actually find out what your old car is worth to them. If you can settle on an agreeable price let them have it. If the dealer is not interested take it to Carmax or the like and sell it to them. IF no dealer wants it because it is too old, sell it or give it away on Craiglist. In any event believe it or not you will come out better than doing a trade in deal. Remember there is absolutely no such thing as a free lunch in any business transaction...especially at a car dealer, and you can take that to the bank.
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I used to negotiate the selling price of the new car and the trade in separately. But the last time, I just figured out the max I'm willing to pay on the new car and the minimum I'm willing to accept on the trade in after researching the market. I take the difference add the taxes and then that is the max drive away price I'm willing to pay.
Then I offered my driveway price to the dealer by email. That way they have more variables to meet my needs. They can either raise the trade in or lower the selling price of the new car, I don't care as long as I get my driveway price. They also can't bury hidden fees in there because we've agreed on the bottom line.
I also tell them everything wrong with my trade in so they can't claim to be surprised and low ball me when I show up. I expected them to turn me down after i did all this and gave them all the bad news about my trade in.
But it was amazing how they managed to make it work despite me telling them that my trade in has a potential blown head gasket and had brakes that were almost grinding metal.
Then I offered my driveway price to the dealer by email. That way they have more variables to meet my needs. They can either raise the trade in or lower the selling price of the new car, I don't care as long as I get my driveway price. They also can't bury hidden fees in there because we've agreed on the bottom line.
I also tell them everything wrong with my trade in so they can't claim to be surprised and low ball me when I show up. I expected them to turn me down after i did all this and gave them all the bad news about my trade in.
But it was amazing how they managed to make it work despite me telling them that my trade in has a potential blown head gasket and had brakes that were almost grinding metal.
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
Trading in your old car at the dealer is very convenient but it will cost you dearly. In any car transaction you always trade convenience for significantly increased cost. If you want to minimize your cost never talk about trade in during any car transaction until AFTER you agree to a drive out price on the car your are purchasing. Including a trade in into your new or used car price negotiation will mark you as a rube. Mixing a "trade in" into a car purchase negotiation allows the dealer to play games with the value of each car depending on what they perceive is your weakness. Mixing in a trade in guarantees that you never really know for sure what the new (or used) car cost you or what your trade in was actually worth. In almost every case a buyer will lose when mixing a trade in with a purchase of a car.
So first negotiate the new car cost. Then only after the drive out price has been settled in writing, you can offer to sell them your old car. They will trot out their used car appraiser and inspect your old car and make you an offer. You will actually find out what your old car is worth to them. If you can settle on an agreeable price let them have it. If the dealer is not interested take it to Carmax or the like and sell it to them. IF no dealer wants it because it is too old, sell it or give it away on Craiglist. In any event believe it or not you will come out better than doing a trade in deal. Remember there is absolutely no such thing as a free lunch in any business transaction...especially at a car dealer, and you can take that to the bank.
Depends on the state. In some states the tax on a car purchase is reduced by the trade in.
Trading in your old car at the dealer is very convenient but it will cost you dearly. In any car transaction you always trade convenience for significantly increased cost. If you want to minimize your cost never talk about trade in during any car transaction until AFTER you agree to a drive out price on the car your are purchasing. Including a trade in into your new or used car price negotiation will mark you as a rube. Mixing a "trade in" into a car purchase negotiation allows the dealer to play games with the value of each car depending on what they perceive is your weakness. Mixing in a trade in guarantees that you never really know for sure what the new (or used) car cost you or what your trade in was actually worth. In almost every case a buyer will lose when mixing a trade in with a purchase of a car.
So first negotiate the new car cost. Then only after the drive out price has been settled in writing, you can offer to sell them your old car. They will trot out their used car appraiser and inspect your old car and make you an offer. You will actually find out what your old car is worth to them. If you can settle on an agreeable price let them have it. If the dealer is not interested take it to Carmax or the like and sell it to them. IF no dealer wants it because it is too old, sell it or give it away on Craiglist. In any event believe it or not you will come out better than doing a trade in deal. Remember there is absolutely no such thing as a free lunch in any business transaction...especially at a car dealer, and you can take that to the bank.
Depends on the state. In some states the tax on a car purchase is reduced by the trade in.
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