I would avoid anything that is too strong such as solvents or flushes , lest you want to clog something from releasing it too quickly. Let the motor oil do its job, it's probably soft sludge anyway.
neglected Malibu
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Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
If anything, it would weaken the add pack of the existing motor oil. Although it may not hurt his engine, it is certainly not going to help either.
Why not seafoam in gas and oil?? Ultra low OCIs of 1000mis using high mileage 5w30 any brand etc.....
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
If anything, it would weaken the add pack of the existing motor oil. Although it may not hurt his engine, it is certainly not going to help either.
Why not seafoam in gas and oil?? Ultra low OCIs of 1000mis using high mileage 5w30 any brand etc.....
I think seafoam would be acceptable only towards the end of the oci. Maybe a week before the oil change.
The long highway runs are going to be just about perfect though for giving the oil time to do its job. Seafoam is one of the only additives that's not useless.
The long highway runs are going to be just about perfect though for giving the oil time to do its job. Seafoam is one of the only additives that's not useless.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Good point but there is no such thing as "winter" in Lafourche Parish, LA.
yeah not much of a winter here. but after a very hot and humid summer, a lil cool weather is always nice!!
Good point but there is no such thing as "winter" in Lafourche Parish, LA.
yeah not much of a winter here. but after a very hot and humid summer, a lil cool weather is always nice!!
For $400 and it runs good you're already ahead, IMHO. We're always searching for that oil additive that will clean and revitalize an old gunked up engine. Oil additive companies prey on this, selling us something that only has psychological benefits and does little or nothing for your engine. I would recommend using a high detergent oil, that others on this forum have endorsed and nothing else. A coolant flush is also a great idea on an older vehicle, and perhaps inspect your rad/heater hoses at that time.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
but why? VOA has shown that tranny fluid does not have much detergent, and its only benefit is being thin. Using any 5wX oil would be much better.
+1
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
but why? VOA has shown that tranny fluid does not have much detergent, and its only benefit is being thin. Using any 5wX oil would be much better.
+1
Since it runs without issue on a fresh change just drive it... Watch the oil level and condition, if it gets VERY dark in a short while(less than 3K), change again...
Yeah I'm gonna hear bla bla color doesn't mean much, but in a possibly sludged engine that's being cleaned it's important... No I wouldn't use any additives...
Yeah I'm gonna hear bla bla color doesn't mean much, but in a possibly sludged engine that's being cleaned it's important... No I wouldn't use any additives...
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I would avoid anything that is too strong such as solvents or flushes , lest you want to clog something from releasing it too quickly. Let the motor oil do its job, it's probably soft sludge anyway.
QFT
I would avoid anything that is too strong such as solvents or flushes , lest you want to clog something from releasing it too quickly. Let the motor oil do its job, it's probably soft sludge anyway.
QFT
Originally Posted By: tig1
I would say the inside of this engine is full of sludge. I would pull the VC and inspec it before doing much else. It may require an upper end had cleaning. If it is full of sludge no oil will help. Maybe a lower end cleaning as well.
Listen to tig1. No transmission fluid. No bottles of snake oil. Your best options are to clean it manually, or have extremely long patience with oil changes if it is actually sludged.
I would say the inside of this engine is full of sludge. I would pull the VC and inspec it before doing much else. It may require an upper end had cleaning. If it is full of sludge no oil will help. Maybe a lower end cleaning as well.
Listen to tig1. No transmission fluid. No bottles of snake oil. Your best options are to clean it manually, or have extremely long patience with oil changes if it is actually sludged.
Just drive it and change proper fluids at proper interval. If you/him want to risk and clean up engine faster - kreen and bigger oil filters + short ocis. Otherwise PYB and HM oils are your friends.
Originally Posted By: FordTrucks71
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
If anything, it would weaken the add pack of the existing motor oil. Although it may not hurt his engine, it is certainly not going to help either.
Why not seafoam in gas and oil?? Ultra low OCIs of 1000mis using high mileage 5w30 any brand etc.....
I never understood the trend here of changing out a good oil at a fixed number (1000,2000,3000 miles etc) because it is "cleaning". The oil doesn't magically stop working because your engine is dirty. If someone chooses to run an HDEO due to it's supposed increased cleaning ability, why would you change at 1000 miles? The add pack in the oil has only begun to work.
If you're going to "clean" an engine with an HDEO or higher calcium PCMO, then run the dang thing for 4 or 5K miles and let it do it's job. If anything, I would be more worried about the filter than the oil.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
If anything, it would weaken the add pack of the existing motor oil. Although it may not hurt his engine, it is certainly not going to help either.
Why not seafoam in gas and oil?? Ultra low OCIs of 1000mis using high mileage 5w30 any brand etc.....
I never understood the trend here of changing out a good oil at a fixed number (1000,2000,3000 miles etc) because it is "cleaning". The oil doesn't magically stop working because your engine is dirty. If someone chooses to run an HDEO due to it's supposed increased cleaning ability, why would you change at 1000 miles? The add pack in the oil has only begun to work.
If you're going to "clean" an engine with an HDEO or higher calcium PCMO, then run the dang thing for 4 or 5K miles and let it do it's job. If anything, I would be more worried about the filter than the oil.
What do you mean aggressive? That the detergents in ATF are more effective/aggressive than in a good motor oil? Explain.
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
I would typically agree but trans fluid is much more aggressive. it wont hurt for a couple hundred miles.. Esp. When the car holds 5 qts.. Half to whole qt won't hurt..
OP - your original plan is fine. VWB will serve you well along with your NAPA filter. Why the hurry to clean up the engine of a $400 beater that's running fine? Normal oil changes and consistent routine maintenance with any API oil will clean it up in time. Do not, under any circumstances, pour ATF in the crankcase.
The oil doesn't magically stop working, but does it have enough residual dispersant capability to allow for a 4-5K run in a really neglected engine? You might overload one of the oil's additives while the calcium just keeps on cleaning. The liberated debris is then free to agglomerate into particles large enough to do harm.
That would be my concern, or am I all wet on this?
If I were the guy the OP rides to work with, I'd remove the valve cover to get an idea of just how badly varnished or sludged the engine actually is.
Chances are that it isn't that bad, unless it was driven on short trips for each of those 115K miles.
I wouldn't run PYB or any other oil for 15K and I wouldn't allow the oil level of any engine to get that low (I believe it takes 5 qts), but the engine may not be all that dirty intenally.
Certainly Dave Newton has shown that 15K on conventional oil is possible under favorable conditions.
If the engine really is badly sludged, then tig is right and manual cleaning would be a really good idea, unless the owner wants to risk destruction.
The only way to determine this is to lift the valve cover.
OTOH, good junkyard Ecotecs are cheap and plentiful.
That would be my concern, or am I all wet on this?
If I were the guy the OP rides to work with, I'd remove the valve cover to get an idea of just how badly varnished or sludged the engine actually is.
Chances are that it isn't that bad, unless it was driven on short trips for each of those 115K miles.
I wouldn't run PYB or any other oil for 15K and I wouldn't allow the oil level of any engine to get that low (I believe it takes 5 qts), but the engine may not be all that dirty intenally.
Certainly Dave Newton has shown that 15K on conventional oil is possible under favorable conditions.
If the engine really is badly sludged, then tig is right and manual cleaning would be a really good idea, unless the owner wants to risk destruction.
The only way to determine this is to lift the valve cover.
OTOH, good junkyard Ecotecs are cheap and plentiful.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Why the hurry to clean up the engine of a $400 beater that's running fine? Normal oil changes and consistent routine maintenance with any API oil will clean it up in time.
THIS^^^
Anything you now do will be better than what the car had before, so, why go to great lengths to hurry a cleaning process on a $400 car? Just give it reasonable care with a good oil, maybe PYB, and let time take care of the cleaning. Enjoy the value.
Why the hurry to clean up the engine of a $400 beater that's running fine? Normal oil changes and consistent routine maintenance with any API oil will clean it up in time.
THIS^^^
Anything you now do will be better than what the car had before, so, why go to great lengths to hurry a cleaning process on a $400 car? Just give it reasonable care with a good oil, maybe PYB, and let time take care of the cleaning. Enjoy the value.
If the engine is sludged, I too would would be concerned with over loading the dispersants. Run whatever SN or certified oil you can get cheap. Check the oil at fill ups and monitor with the unscientific card test. Supertech for 1-3k would be a good place to start. Make sure the engine gets some good highway runs. If the oil level drops and your close to changing, running a pint or two of MMO might be considered on the last tank.
After that PYB 3-5k and keep it simple.
After that PYB 3-5k and keep it simple.
PULL THE VALVE COVER AND LOOK AT IT BEFORE COMING UP WITH A CLEANING PLAN.
Originally Posted By: Mark_Walk
PULL THE VALVE COVER AND LOOK AT IT BEFORE COMING UP WITH A CLEANING PLAN.
Exactly what I said a few posts above, although I didn't use caps lock.
Find out what's in there before you try cleaning it out.
May be nothing, may be enough to require manual cleaning before causing the pickup screen to clog, with almost zero flow to the mains and a scored crank or maybe a siezed engine.
PULL THE VALVE COVER AND LOOK AT IT BEFORE COMING UP WITH A CLEANING PLAN.
Exactly what I said a few posts above, although I didn't use caps lock.
Find out what's in there before you try cleaning it out.
May be nothing, may be enough to require manual cleaning before causing the pickup screen to clog, with almost zero flow to the mains and a scored crank or maybe a siezed engine.
Sometimes I scratch my head at the advice given here. Pull the valve cover just to see how dirty the engine is? That's ridiculous! Why open up the engine and risk damaging something else in the process? Do people even read what they're recommending before hitting that submit button?
OP said the the engine feels fine and runs nice and smooth. Why on earth would anybody recommend messing around with it just to see how dirty it is is beyond me
Just use whatever oil you want and cut the first OCI short just to see how everything works, or if there is excessive oil consumption and then stick to 3-5k mile OCIs if dino is used.
This isn't some exotic or a classic that needs to be saved or restored. It's a commuter car that will be used as such and as long as there are no signs of problems like blinking oil pressure light, loud knocking sounds when cold etc. the car will be fine, even if the engine is not pristine inside.
OP said the the engine feels fine and runs nice and smooth. Why on earth would anybody recommend messing around with it just to see how dirty it is is beyond me
Just use whatever oil you want and cut the first OCI short just to see how everything works, or if there is excessive oil consumption and then stick to 3-5k mile OCIs if dino is used.
This isn't some exotic or a classic that needs to be saved or restored. It's a commuter car that will be used as such and as long as there are no signs of problems like blinking oil pressure light, loud knocking sounds when cold etc. the car will be fine, even if the engine is not pristine inside.
Removing the valve cover isn't going to do any damage unless one is totally ham-fisted.
The reason that it might be wise to do so is that while the engine may be running fine, the maintenance practices of the previous owner may have it at a point where deposits are sufficient to cause a loss of oil flow in this otherwise fine running engine.
That would be catastrophic.
Verifying just how bad the deposits are in an engine known to have been poorly maintained seems sensible.
The owner can then decide whether to risk simply driving the car and hoping that everything goes well or to remove the deposits in the upper head and the lower end manually.
We've all seen photos of engines with an iffy level of deposits.
Should the owner try to save the engine or just use it and hope for the best?
Without verifying condition with a peek inside, the owner has no idea what he's dealing with and has made a decision by default.
If this car has the potential to last some years as the current owner will use it, then he may as well take full advantage of the bargain he got by doing a little simple inspection and then dealing with whatever conditions he finds.
The reason that it might be wise to do so is that while the engine may be running fine, the maintenance practices of the previous owner may have it at a point where deposits are sufficient to cause a loss of oil flow in this otherwise fine running engine.
That would be catastrophic.
Verifying just how bad the deposits are in an engine known to have been poorly maintained seems sensible.
The owner can then decide whether to risk simply driving the car and hoping that everything goes well or to remove the deposits in the upper head and the lower end manually.
We've all seen photos of engines with an iffy level of deposits.
Should the owner try to save the engine or just use it and hope for the best?
Without verifying condition with a peek inside, the owner has no idea what he's dealing with and has made a decision by default.
If this car has the potential to last some years as the current owner will use it, then he may as well take full advantage of the bargain he got by doing a little simple inspection and then dealing with whatever conditions he finds.
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