Need Some Guidance for my 1.8T

[lancerplayer]

I am approaching the 2,000 mile mark on my 2001 VW GTI 1.8T since the first oil change of me owning the car. I am now in need of some guidance on what to do next.

Please refer to my previous thread for more information/pictures = https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/cleaning-the-vw-1-8t-questions.131985/

It is currently filled with Shell Rotella T6 5w40. It has not burned any oil or leaked any oil since I put it in the motor. The oil is a darker color at only 2,000 miles, which tells me it has done some cleaning to the inside. If there are particles floating around, I want to get the oil and filter out ASAP to avoid any problems.

The inside of the motor, from the oil fill cap, looks the same. I can't tell the difference. I am not taking off the valve cover to get a better look.

The motor runs smooth and has not given me any sort of problems. Always starts up and performs fine.

All that said...what should I do next?

A simple oil and filter change with T6 and run a 3K or 5K OCI?
Run some sort of solvent?
Try a different oil?

1. Vehicle: 2001 VW GTI 1.8T
2. Manual: 5w40 or 5w30 API SJ
ACEA A2 or ACEA A3
VW502 00 or VW500 00 or VW501 01
3. Location: Cleveland, OH and Erie, PA
4. How you drive: Easy with the occasional spirited drive
5. Daily drive: 60% city 40% highway
6. Problems: No known problems. No leaks. No oil consumption.
* I just want an oil that will protect my motor, keep it clean, and I can run year round encountering temps from 0*F to 95*F.

I have read people using 5w40, 5w30, and 0w40 in the 1.8T motor. I am unsure on what to do in my application.

I need some guidance! Thanks for your help.

 

[addyguy]

"A simple oil and filter change with T6 and run a 3K or 5K OCI?"

Exactly what you should do, could even extend the OCI to 7500 miles.

 

[MPosey]

If the T6 doesn't do it for you (I have never used it, but I have heard good things) I had the exact same engine in my Passat 5 speed. I ran the VW-approved Amsoil (I think it was the Euro 5w40 iirc) and it worked really, really well. No problems. Also make sure you use the BIG oil filter, they had sludge issues on the 1.8T's and the big filter helps take care of a lot of the issues.

 

[Audi Junkie]

"ACEA A2"?

"VW Approved AMSoil"?

I'd stick w/Rotella.

 

[CBR.worm]

If it is any consolation my fill area looked about the same, when I pulled the valve cover everything was clean other than the deposits that were stuck on the valve cover itself

The fear is that the oil pickup is easily plugged in these motors. You might be better off with the stuff stuck in place than floating around.

 

[saberz]

You can go with the assumption/gut feeling and proceed with your cleaning path or open her up and verify those findings.

Either way you will want to run a robust oil specced properly for your vehicle(T6 and others) for a reasonable OCI, not extended. Extended an OCI to Manufacturer recommendations on a known sludger is ill-advised no matter how good an oil is. Why play Russian Roullette with your car? 4-5k OCI's MAX using the recommended oil. It's a peace of mind and keeping your car clean and running fine.

 

[Audi Junkie]

On the other hand, we have good used oil analysis from light 5w30.

Originally Posted By: lancerplayer
I have read people using 5w40, 5w30, and 0w40 in the 1.8T motor. I am unsure on what to do in my application.


You forgot 0w-30, which was factory-fill (German Syntec).

Changing oils for seasons is the best solution I know of.

Maybe Rotella T 5w-40 for summer and Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 for winter. Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 for Fall and Spring???

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

Maybe Rotella T 5w-40 for summer and Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 for winter. Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 for Fall and Spring???

4 oil changes per year? If he puts on 30K miles on the car per year, then maybe, but otherwise?

Also, this whole seasonal grade variation idea escapes me. The operating temp is the same regardless if it's summer or winter. If you use a 0w30 or 0w-40 oil with high enough HT/HS, it should cover you year round. It's good for winter, and I don't see any downsides of it for summer.

 

[lancerplayer]

I only put on around 10K per year. I just want to use a viscosity that will work safely year round.

Can someone confirm I am better off dumping the oil at 2K instead of say 5K to get rid of the deposits from the cleaning action? Or is that just a waste of oil?

 

[Audi Junkie]

Pete, seasonally, 5w30 is much thinner than 5w-40 during cold start and warm-up. This period accounts for much or my winter driving. My approach considers this time element in a real-world sense. Not much different than 10w30 vs 5w30 thing, except more pronounced.

I tend to think summer oil temps run higher after warm-up too, but I'll leave that up to someone else to argue.


lancerplayer, I think you are reacting too quickly, without considering the info nor your own declarative position on it. There are two distinct choices; thick or thin.

Now you should consider the info particular to you.
These ones indicate thin oil is good for you:

Does you car have mods: no

Do you take short trips: yes, I assume that's what "city driving" is.

Do you have consumption: no

Do you have high miles: not really

Do you have sludge: maybe, so thin oil is better at cleaning that.


As a general rule, you use the thinnest oil that does not produces excess wear, so that lets you start with thin 5w30 that you can get in a 5q jug. If consumption goes up, if you get mods, if you pull a used oil analysis and it has excess wear, then go to a 5w-40. One thing is for sure, 5w-40 is poor in cold with a turbo, that's why Euro 0w30 and 0w-40 was invented. Starting and cold short tripping in winter leaves that oil really thick for the ride and starving the turbo when you want to hammer it before FULL warm-up.

Ok? That's decent advice. It's a bit of work to customize every oil recommendation, so be understanding and think it out, I'm not sure the "one visc all year" idea is really ideal, but if you want one single oil, you can try 5w30 synthetic and get the best mpg as an extra bonus.

 

[lancerplayer]

Thanks for your input Audi! I think I will give Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 a try. If problems arise I will go back to Rotella T6 5w40.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Nate's Pennzoil Platinum used oil analysis was from summer driving, fwiw.

 

[lancerplayer]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie


One thing is for sure, 5w-40 is poor in cold with a turbo, that's why Euro 0w30 and 0w-40 was invented. Starting and cold short tripping in winter leaves that oil really thick for the ride and starving the turbo when you want to hammer it before FULL warm-up.



I am not looking to argue or disagree with you in any way, Audi. You know a lot more about motor oil than I do. However, I noticed Shell claims that the T6 oil has great cold weather protection:

IMPROVED HIGH/LOW-TEMPERATURE PROTECTION
Shell Rotella® T6 provides extra protection against breakdown by heat and offers up to 70% better oxidation resistance, compared to conventional Shell Rotella® T3 15w40 API CJ-4 oil.

Shell Rotella® T6 5W-40 provides excellent low-temperature flow, even at -30ºF.

If what they market is true, then I should have nothing to worry about in the winter months. Again, I am not trying to cause an argument. Just trying to learn a thing or two.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Right, it does have great cold flow, for a 5w-40 (which is generally used in HD industrial apps because it's required).

Like I said, the reason Euro 0w30 and 0w-40s were invented is to make the visc on the hot end (HT/HS) at +150c of 3.5cP, but still crank decently in cold. Your engine can run a lighter oil, pretty much end of story, especially since you are in a cold climate.

I'll crunch the numbers against Pennzoil Platinum 5w30, my bet is we see RTS almost twice as thick at some temps.

 

[Audi Junkie]

At -4f PP is 2200cSt, the RTS is 4000, about twice as thick.

At +40c, already warming up, PP is 55cSt and RTS is still 95.

So yeah, there is an advantage to the thinner oils.


Dr. AE Hass has some reports on thin oils, like the 5w-20s in his new European exotics. His stuff is worth reading.

Is there a link?

 

[Thermo1223]

That really is a lot on conjecture regarding T6 in the cold and you know it.

There are engines in this world(mainly diesel but gas as well) that experience full load right after start-up. If flow on cold oil was suspect in anyway those engines would be going through turbo's like I do gasoline.

There is no way he is going to starve the turbo for oil unless he does to the engine first unless he cooked the feed line using the wrong oil(or wrong restrictor).

I might also add through my use of old car during winter with a pressure & temp oil gauge. That oil temp reflects coolant temp the same as it does in winter as it does summer. It was always the same temp but reacted slower when load was increased and just took longer to achieve equilibrium. It was put under full load some mornings right after start-up. No choice really as I prefer not to be a nuisance on the highway to others.

The days of running oil seasonally are really over and perpetuating this myth that one should changed based on the seasons is malarkey.

If you live where below freezing temps are the normal you choose either 0/5w. It is stays relatively mild year round you get away with a 10w but should take extra care should encounter colder weather.

I personally like oils that only come in 0/5w so I wouldn't bother looking at a 10w unless it really excelled in other areas.

T6 is about as stable as an oil can get for turbo-charged, high heat, heavy duty applications. I'd stick with it.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
That really is a lot on conjecture regarding T6 in the cold and you know it.


Not really when I use the published specs to determine which oil is thicker at what temp.

The numbers I posted are accurate. I suggest you do a freezer test to demonstrate it if the numbers don't make sense to you. I was surprised how much thinner 10w30 was over 5w-40, try it with 5w30.

Twice as thick is twice as thick, that not really conjecture nor ambiguous.

Using a heavier than needed oil isn't necessary, you didn't even argue specific reasons for it, other than it's "good".

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie


Not really when I use the published specs to determine which oil is thicker at what temp.

The numbers I posted are accurate. I suggest you do a freezer test to demonstrate it if the numbers don't make sense to you. I was surprised how much thinner 10w30 was over 5w-40, try it with 5w30.

Twice as thick is twice as thick, that not really conjecture nor ambiguous.

Using a heavier than needed oil isn't necessary, you didn't even argue specific reasons for it, other than it's "good".


Saying it will starve the turbo on WOT at less than operating temp is where the conjecture started. It will not and if he is already operating the engine out of safe limits than a higher grade heavy duty oil is what he wants IMO.

The oil is going to warm up a lot quicker in a turbo charged engine as well so warm up times aren't as crucial. Even in winter as previously stated the oil temp was always in line with coolant, just took a tad longer based on outside temps.

I personally would not sacrifice protection on an engine running over factory specs. by running a thinner oil if I knew it was going to see WOT. I would want that cushion and with T6 being so inexpensive in this regard I see it as the smart thing to do.

If I did not have the Forester performing over factory specs I would be inclined to stick with a 0/5w30 myself. I actually just picked up some Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 for the Mazda, $15 for a jug is one [censored] of a deal.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223

Saying it will starve the turbo on WOT at less than operating temp is where the conjecture started. It will not and if he is already operating the engine out of safe limits than a higher grade heavy duty oil is what he wants IMO.


I personally would not sacrifice protection on an engine running over factory specs. by running a thinner oil if I knew it was going to see WOT. I would want that cushion with T6.


Let me say that there is a clear example of this K03 turbo being starved, K03s installed in the 2.7TT S4 engine. That's a *known* thing and the factory even speced larger oil feed lines for this reason. So, there is a legitimate concern there for cold flow to the turbo.

I don't know where you were when everyone else made the switch to thinner oils, including VW Audi with their latest service oils all 5w30.

What you say about cold oil is off too. When the oil is cold/cool/warm, it is amazingly thick. So, selecting an oil even "thicker" oil as a "cushion" makes little sense at 1000cSt. Your misunderstanding of this basic aspect oil viscosity has lead you to a mistaken conclusion. Thinner oil is in fact better for full power operation sooner, as it is proportionally closer to the CORRECT operating visc.

I can show you temps where 5w-40 is twice as thick as 5w30, and at that cool temp you are saying 2000cSt is better than 1000cSt or 500? That's just absurd.

 

[Thermo1223]

As far as I was told by some friends in the S4 community the K03's were being over-worked. Oil had little to do with it, it was heat and load. The turbo's were too small for the given application and the only way to get them to last up to 100k was complete non use of the car's power. I read that automatics tended to fair better because of reduced engine output. This is why upgrading to K04's which came stock on an RS4 is popular, you gain power but more importantly reliability.

Lets not forget though that is a completely different engine. Running 250HP stock on twin K03's vs. 150-180HP stock on a smaller engine flowing less air.

The switch to thinner service oils has more to do with emissions and newer injection/engine management then anything else. Sure the specs are backwards compatible but is it worth it? Unsure, depends on the operating environment which is why a lot of TDI guys won't use Low SAPS oils in the older motors.

Define better? If riding the line between operating viscosity and oil failure is better for some fine. To me I rather error on the side of caution run oil that won't easily thin out of spec based on it's intended application. Like I said, had the Forester stayed stock, I'd run a 0/5w30 and be happy. It is not so more heat equals more load on the oil to do it's job under extreme instances since I am not at mechanical operating limits yet. I thought he intended on modding the 1.8t or did so that is what I am basing this off of.

T6 would be just as fine in the winter as any 5w30 since he will never see -30F and since no oil maker releases a chart detailing the viscosity curve it is hard to assume IMO it is linear.