Need Oil Advice for Dad's 1960 Bug Convertible

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Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I will not comment on your oil choice, but that is one sharp Bug.


Thanks Bud
smile.gif
It is a very nice bug. The thing is it still sounds like a sewing machine, just ta ta ta ta after 51 years!! I mean, wow. it is truly astonishing to me.

As for oil, its a toss up. I don't think the use of a 30w HD oil is going to hurt anthing. Its had a straight 30w oil in it this long and its lasted 51 yrs. haha.

Jeff
 
I have read on numerous VW blogs, and I am learning as I go, since I am not a "VW" guy. this is all greek to me. But seems that in the early motors like my Dad's 60 bug, that has the 1100cc motor it is not really advised to run a 40w due to its narrower oil passages.

I do realize that oil does thin out as it gets warmer, but I feel that the 30w should be fine for this bug. A multi wieght oil would be benificial I am sure if this bug was driven daily or in colder weather. Honestly, my Dad drives it only on the weekends and in good weather. No rain, No cold, No temps over 100F.

I am thinking of going with the VR1 30wt. Will give it a try and see how it goes. I was considering the Brad Penn 30wt as well.

At the local store I can buy the following:

Valvoline 30w
Penzoil 30w
Castrol HD 30w
Rotella T1 30w
Rotella T 30w

I have been thinking about that Rotella T 30w too, I just don't know the difference between the T and the T1

Jeff
 
If you local store has Pennzoil 30W, get it. It is an excellent straight weight oil. I can't begin to tell you how many miles I put on my old bug using that oil.

I always said, pound for pound and dollar or dollar, the bug was the best car ever built.
 
Thanks Johnny,

Hey Bud, I have seen the Penzoil 30w, but I don't think it says HD on it. Does it matter for this application? They sell the Penzoil 30w at Autozone for $4.50 a qt OUCH haha, luckily I only need to buy 3 qts at a time.


Jeff
 
All I know is this bug is 51 yrs old, my Grandfather drove it, My Dad drove it, his 2 brothers drove it, now my Dad has it back, and the thing ticks like a sewing machine. Its just amazes me. Driving it turned more heads than in my Evo, or my Mom's Lexus. haha. Its just a car that appeals to the masses, that is for sure.

Jeff
 
I'll throw my
49.gif
worth in.
Please remember it is discounted down to free.
So take it at face value.

First old air cooled engines needed generous piston to bore clearances to allow for the piston expansion associated with air cooled jug temperatures.
So air cooled engines tend to be a little "loose" when cold compared to a water cooled engine. A heaver oil such as straight 30 HD was and is desirable to compensate for the extra cold clearance.
I am tempted to agree with the folks recommending 15W40, my gut says stay with a 30 HD. I have to give a nod to Johnny"s recommendation in deference to his experience.

Regarding deposits if there are heavy deposits and if you add something that cuts them loose; remember the only oil filter is the mesh strainer. An oil or additive that does aggressive cleaning could result in wrecked bearings.

Stay on top of the valve adjustments per the manual. The exhaust valves normally tighten up due to valve and seat wear.

I had a '63 a long time ago. I remember running 30HD in the winter and 40HD summertime FWIW.

That's a fine heirloom worthy of restoration and preservation.

Good luck Sir.

Rickey.
 
Years ago, in Australia, my dad had 1961 and 1964 Bugs to get to university. My mom's recollection "I don't remeber much about the car, I just remember he drove everywhere with his foot to the floor, as fast as he could."

They probably never got oil chages, as that would have cost beer money! Those cars took amazing abuse, and just kept going........
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Hello everyone
smile.gif


I have been scratching my head when my Dad asked me the other day what oil he should be using in his 60 Bug Convertible.

This bug has been in my family for over 50yrs and was my Grandfathers Daily Driver at one time, then it was my Dads, then his Brother's etc. Well a few years ago my Grandfather passed away and my Dad was given the Bug. My Dad has lots of fond memmories in this car.

Well, its all original and my Dad is upgrading some parts that are just worn out completely. The carpets, roof top, he already went through the suspension and steering, replaced all engine seals and well the engine is in great shape. Sounds like a sewing machine, ta ta ta ta with minimal oil drip which is astonishing for a car this age (and we all know the bugs were infamous for oil drips).

Anyway, the manual states to use a straight 30w oil in the car and a that is actually getting harder to find. My Dad actually resorted to putting in Super Tech 30W just to get the oil changed. I told him there must be something better out there that we can use. I know the Super Tech oil is SM rated and that the low ZDDP does not apply to straight weight oils like the multi wieghts.

I just think this engine needs all the help it can get. Synthetics are pretty much out, since there is probably so much carbon on the seals that synthetics would probably cause more seepage in an engine of this vintage. I was looking at Valvoline VR1 30w or maybe just the Castrol HD 30w. Now I realize the VR1 is a "race" oil, but I figured with this engine being air cooled and would bevefit from all the zddp in that oil. I just wanted some opinions out there on what they would recommend. I would like to stick with the straight grade 30w which this bug has had since 1960. No sense in switching now after 51 yrs. haha.

It has the 1100cc 36hp motor and was rebuilt once 25 yrs ago. I am also trying to find a Saphire Radio for it. The original one was tossed by my uncle in the 70's for an 8 track player haha. So if anyone knows where we can acquire a Saphire radio or a replica (6 volt system) please let me know. If folks are interested I could post up picks of the car for fun as well. Its a little messy right now since my Dad is installing new carpets and upholstry.

Thanks for your help Everyone. Any other info anyone would like to throw in I'm all ears
smile.gif


Jeff


You have to be careful about what oil you use in these engines as most of them only have a metal gauze oil strainer instead of a proper oil filter. If you use modern high detergent oils in these engines then particles are kept in suspension, with nothing to filter them out of the oil it will increase engine wear. The oil also acts as a coolant for the air cooled engine which gets very hot in places so be careful before you go sticking something other than the tried and tested viscosity in it. You want a low detergent Straight 30 oil in there bud.
 
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Hello everyone
smile.gif


I have been scratching my head when my Dad asked me the other day what oil he should be using in his 60 Bug Convertible.

This bug has been in my family for over 50yrs and was my Grandfathers Daily Driver at one time, then it was my Dads, then his Brother's etc. Well a few years ago my Grandfather passed away and my Dad was given the Bug. My Dad has lots of fond memmories in this car.

Well, its all original and my Dad is upgrading some parts that are just worn out completely. The carpets, roof top, he already went through the suspension and steering, replaced all engine seals and well the engine is in great shape. Sounds like a sewing machine, ta ta ta ta with minimal oil drip which is astonishing for a car this age (and we all know the bugs were infamous for oil drips).

Anyway, the manual states to use a straight 30w oil in the car and a that is actually getting harder to find. My Dad actually resorted to putting in Super Tech 30W just to get the oil changed. I told him there must be something better out there that we can use. I know the Super Tech oil is SM rated and that the low ZDDP does not apply to straight weight oils like the multi wieghts.

I just think this engine needs all the help it can get. Synthetics are pretty much out, since there is probably so much carbon on the seals that synthetics would probably cause more seepage in an engine of this vintage. I was looking at Valvoline VR1 30w or maybe just the Castrol HD 30w. Now I realize the VR1 is a "race" oil, but I figured with this engine being air cooled and would bevefit from all the zddp in that oil. I just wanted some opinions out there on what they would recommend. I would like to stick with the straight grade 30w which this bug has had since 1960. No sense in switching now after 51 yrs. haha.

It has the 1100cc 36hp motor and was rebuilt once 25 yrs ago. I am also trying to find a Saphire Radio for it. The original one was tossed by my uncle in the 70's for an 8 track player haha. So if anyone knows where we can acquire a Saphire radio or a replica (6 volt system) please let me know. If folks are interested I could post up picks of the car for fun as well. Its a little messy right now since my Dad is installing new carpets and upholstry.

Thanks for your help Everyone. Any other info anyone would like to throw in I'm all ears
smile.gif


Jeff


You have to be careful about what oil you use in these engines as most of them only have a metal gauze oil strainer instead of a proper oil filter. If you use modern high detergent oils in these engines then particles are kept in suspension, with nothing to filter them out of the oil it will increase engine wear. The oil also acts as a coolant for the air cooled engine which gets very hot in places so be careful before you go sticking something other than the tried and tested viscosity in it. You want a low detergent Straight 30 oil in there bud.


The OP said that the engine was rebuilt 25 years ago. As long as his family hadn't been using a non-detergent/low detergent (garbage)oil he should be fine using a high detergent oil.

I have had several VWs over the past 25 years as well as lots of air cooled power equipment. The vast majority of the 30W oils that I saw on the shelves (as I was buying it on a regular basis) was high quality, high detergent oil like Pennzoil, Castrol, etc. The cheap ND30 was a relatively rare sight.
 
When I was employed as a VW Tech< the dealers only had a straight weight(vw used 30wt and porsche used 40wt). The multi-grades were not as developed as they have advanced to todays standards. By the time I left, the dealer networks were utilizing 20w-50 oils at both VW and Porsche. Castrol 30wt used to be referred to as "the air-cooled engine oil" decades ago. Your need for a high ZDDP additive package probably is not required, but it is best to error on the safe side. Sure, you have a flat tappet camshaft, but the valve spring pressure is kinda low. But a few of the straight weight oils have recently adhered to the newest API rateings, such as Pennzoil, Castrol, Valvoline, and others. They are now SM or even SN rated. I know a few such as Pennzoil and Chevron/Texaco have additional anti-wear additives to counter the ZDDP reduction, such as moly and boron. The diesel oils you are referring to are plentifull on the west coast( Shell Rotella and Chevron Delo). Recently, the Shell Rotella straight weight of 30 and 40 lost its gas engine rateing. Not sure if anything had changed in the oils chemistry or it may have been a cash issue with Shell.
Personally, i have driven VW's as daily drivers for the last 35 years and have never had an oil failure by useing the available oils out there, but a lot has changed. So, with that said my current flavor in my daily driver Bus is the diesel 15w-40, in either the Rotella or Delo.
 
To follow up my previous post, I am by no means an oil expert. The folks who have responded to your initial post have far more experience than I could dream of! But I will say that years ago oil selection may not have been to big an issue. But today, not sure. I would say that the early non-emission air-cooled VW engine is easy on oil. I worked unit rebuild at dealers and independents. Most of my work was from LACK of maintenance or care and not from oil selection. Depending on your climate in calif, I would think that a quality oil with a good additive package should suffice. Oil weight selection should be based on a few things but remember that the early 36hp and 40hp engines had NO cam bearings. The cam ran directly on the case's cam bore, so if wear is evident, oil pressure may be low, requiring a heavier oil viscosity to maintain oil pressure.

Johnny, thank you for your comment "best car ever built".

Valvoline VR1 is a racing oil and don't racing oils sacrifice detergents?

I would not suggest a non-det oil. Sure I got a case of Valvoline non-det 30wt, for when the cam grinder recommends a non-det oil for cam breakin but that's disappearing.
If your engine is sludged up, address that directly. Basically, change the oil more frequently. Plus there's a section here for that.

Pm if you want any advice. I drove a '58 bug as a daily driver for over 20 years til it got hit as it was parked in front of the house.
 
Originally Posted By: dnastrau
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Hello everyone
smile.gif


I have been scratching my head when my Dad asked me the other day what oil he should be using in his 60 Bug Convertible.

This bug has been in my family for over 50yrs and was my Grandfathers Daily Driver at one time, then it was my Dads, then his Brother's etc. Well a few years ago my Grandfather passed away and my Dad was given the Bug. My Dad has lots of fond memmories in this car.

Well, its all original and my Dad is upgrading some parts that are just worn out completely. The carpets, roof top, he already went through the suspension and steering, replaced all engine seals and well the engine is in great shape. Sounds like a sewing machine, ta ta ta ta with minimal oil drip which is astonishing for a car this age (and we all know the bugs were infamous for oil drips).

Anyway, the manual states to use a straight 30w oil in the car and a that is actually getting harder to find. My Dad actually resorted to putting in Super Tech 30W just to get the oil changed. I told him there must be something better out there that we can use. I know the Super Tech oil is SM rated and that the low ZDDP does not apply to straight weight oils like the multi wieghts.

I just think this engine needs all the help it can get. Synthetics are pretty much out, since there is probably so much carbon on the seals that synthetics would probably cause more seepage in an engine of this vintage. I was looking at Valvoline VR1 30w or maybe just the Castrol HD 30w. Now I realize the VR1 is a "race" oil, but I figured with this engine being air cooled and would bevefit from all the zddp in that oil. I just wanted some opinions out there on what they would recommend. I would like to stick with the straight grade 30w which this bug has had since 1960. No sense in switching now after 51 yrs. haha.

It has the 1100cc 36hp motor and was rebuilt once 25 yrs ago. I am also trying to find a Saphire Radio for it. The original one was tossed by my uncle in the 70's for an 8 track player haha. So if anyone knows where we can acquire a Saphire radio or a replica (6 volt system) please let me know. If folks are interested I could post up picks of the car for fun as well. Its a little messy right now since my Dad is installing new carpets and upholstry.

Thanks for your help Everyone. Any other info anyone would like to throw in I'm all ears
smile.gif


Jeff


You have to be careful about what oil you use in these engines as most of them only have a metal gauze oil strainer instead of a proper oil filter. If you use modern high detergent oils in these engines then particles are kept in suspension, with nothing to filter them out of the oil it will increase engine wear. The oil also acts as a coolant for the air cooled engine which gets very hot in places so be careful before you go sticking something other than the tried and tested viscosity in it. You want a low detergent Straight 30 oil in there bud.


The OP said that the engine was rebuilt 25 years ago. As long as his family hadn't been using a non-detergent/low detergent (garbage)oil he should be fine using a high detergent oil.

I have had several VWs over the past 25 years as well as lots of air cooled power equipment. The vast majority of the 30W oils that I saw on the shelves (as I was buying it on a regular basis) was high quality, high detergent oil like Pennzoil, Castrol, etc. The cheap ND30 was a relatively rare sight.


Using a high or low detergent oil has got nothing to do with the condition of the engine, it's to do with the design of the engine.

If he rebuilt the engine and fitted a full flow oil filter to it then a detergent oil will be better as it will keep the engine cleaner.

If he didn't and it only has the metal oil strainer then there will be nothing filtering the particles kept in suspension by the detergents in the oil which will increase engine wear. The non/low detergent will allow the large particles to drop harmlessly into the sump.

Anyone who knows anything about oil will tell you, getting the application right is the number one most important thing, classic cars are no exception.
 
Last edited:
I can see where you are thinking this thought of the detergent oils in an engine with no oil filter, but if he has an extremely dirty or sludged up crankcase, he needs to directly address that issue. I have worked for VW/Porsche/Audi for 15 years(1973-1988) and had been to nearly all of the factory schools when they were in Culver City, Ca. There is no way VWOA would recommend a non-detergent motor oil for the any air-cooled vehicle they produced.
 
Originally Posted By: VWguy
I can see where you are thinking this thought of the detergent oils in an engine with no oil filter, but if he has an extremely dirty or sludged up crankcase, he needs to directly address that issue. I have worked for VW/Porsche/Audi for 15 years(1973-1988) and had been to nearly all of the factory schools when they were in Culver City, Ca. There is no way VWOA would recommend a non-detergent motor oil for the any air-cooled vehicle they produced.


It doesn't matter whether you have a dirty sump or a clean sump, you can't run a high detergent oil in an engine with no method of filtration. What would be the point in keeping large metal and carbon particles in suspension wearing your engine away?
 
Last edited:
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