Need OCI Recommendation from BITOGer's

[Honda_Fan]

Ok fellow oil enthusiasts, here's the situaiton.

2009 Honda Ruckus = 49cc, Liquid Cooled, Single Cylinder Engine with CVT (no wet clutch). Oil Screen only, no oil filter. Normal running speed 25-35 mph which is 5,000 to 7,000 rpm's. Holds 20 oz. of oil. Also has a magnetic drain plug installed.

Honda Manual recommends 2500 mile OCI's. To me, this seems like just too long with an oil filter proper and running at 30-mph average speeds. The Ruckus enthusiasts at 'Total Ruckus' recommend a 600-mile OCI.

As you can see, opposite ends of the spectrum here. Being liquid cooled (thermostat, fan, etc.) I can get by with running a 30-wt oil vs a 40-wt for an air cooled scooter. But I need your advice (any and all advice is welcome).

I've been running Castrol Edge 5w30, Mobil 1 0w30, whatever decent Syn that I can get on special (MIR's, etc.). Probably no need to run a Syn, but sure can't hurt. I've been changing oil every 1,000 miles. Have also been recently using Lubro-Moly at the recommended dosages.

What do you guys/gals think would be an ideal OCI? Remember, no oil filter (only a magnetic drain plug and oil screen) and only 20-oz of oil. But then, it is a Honda.

 

[spasm3]

When i had a kymco super 8 150cc, I changed every 500-750 with rotella syn. I also used lubromoly for the last change before i sold it. It seemed to really run better 100 miles or so after the moly. Seems you are doing everything right. I also change the rear end lube every 1000 miles with either mobil syn gear oil or the valvoline semisyn gear oil. The 500-750 mile change was my choice for the same reason you are concerned, no oil filter. The manual said 1000 miles. But i like 500-750. Rotella syn in a 4 quart jug is 20 some bucks so not bad for 4 oil changes.

 

[Hallmark]

Most small engine manufacturer-recommended OCIs are based on approx. 100 hours of engine time. At 30 mph, 2500 miles works out to approx. 83 hours. At that OCI, the engine will likely outlast your enthusiasm/usage.

It's probably much more important to maintain the air filter. Silicon (dirt/dust) intake is an engine killer...many small engine users ignore regular maintenance of the critical air filter.

However, frequent OCIs of 20 oz of oil involves pocket change, not a major $$ investment. Change the oil as frequently as you have available time...just don't exceed the recommended OCI.

 

[RC46_Rider]

No wet clutch certainly opens up a lot more options! Looks to me like you are in the ballpark with what you are doing now.

I would think a good syn 5w30 would be perfect for that scooter. If you make lots of short trips where the motor never really warms up, there is a some advantage to an oil that will flow quickly and freely during cold start up and "cold" running. If your trips warm it up and you cover a lot of miles, the equation may change slightly.

My guess is that any major brand 'car' syn in 5w30 would be perfect. I am familiar with your weather since my son lives in Columbus... you don't get much really hot weather there and you do get a lot of moderate weather....until it gets REALLY cold! (chuckle...) If you really want the scooter to last "forever", the 600 mile OCI makes sense if it is easy to change. I think your 1,000 mile interval is pretty reasonable. For some reason, Honda, in both cars and bikes tends to recommend, what appear to be "too long" (if you are keeping the vehicle long term) oil intervals. I kinda suspect their Marketing Dept. has something to say about pushing that envelope to the margin. Also, like any car manufacturer, they would prefer to see your car end up in the junk yard and not last too long, thus reducing new car sales. Remember they make money by SELLING cars....just like ALL the rest of them.

The only absolute fact I can tell you is that, and this surprises some people, on some common light aircraft, an oil filter is OPTIONAL. You can buy the plane without a filter and the engine manual will give OCI's for with and without a filter. When that is the case, the OCI is cut to 1/2 of what it is if there is a filter. Since people can die if an aircraft engine quits, you can assume that the OCI of 50% of what a filtered engine is allowed is probably "safe and reasonable". i.e. Your 1,000 mile interval appears pretty reasonable/conservative.

 

[bruckus]

I have a 2007 Honda Ruckus. I run Rotella t-6 5w-40 oil. I change my oil once in the middle of summer and then again at the end of the year before I pack it away for winter. I dont really pay alot of attention to the miles but just like to look it over a couple times a year. I bought the ruck brand new in the spring of 2008 and currently have about 5500 trouble free miles on it. depending on how much you drive twice a year is probably an overkill but its still less than 2 quarts. Great little scoot.

 

[boraticus]

I've seen small air cooled Honda engines being flogged mercilessly by kids and teens for years on end without oil changes.

I've mentioned before that I had a young nephew who'd come out to camp for summers from when he was eight years old or so until he was fifteen. He hung around with a couple local boys who were well on the wild side.

They each rode little Honda 50cc trail bikes about 15 years old. Let me correct that. They severely abused their two little Honda Trail 50s. They looked like they were thrown down a rock slide. These things were all but destroyed.

One day they came by the camp to have me inflate a tire or check something out for them. I was completely amazed how beat up these two bikes were yet kept running. I did what they wanted then pulled the spark plug on one but couldn't get the other out. The hole was stripped and the plug kept spinning in it. Cleaned the plug and put it back. Then I inspected the air filters.... what air filters? The foam was almost a solid mass of dirt/mud/debris. Checked the oil (tar/grease). Virtually none. I asked the boys when the oil was last changed? Never.

So, if these little engines can take that kind of a pounding with no maintenance or oil changes for years on end, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to be doing unnecessarily short OCIs on your machine. I'd probably go 2000 miles and use any off the shelf decent brand conventional oil. As mentioned before, the engine will likely outlast your interest/ownership.

 

[car54]

Wan's ruck had over 18,000 miles on it with minimal maintenance by whoever would help him. I met him towards the end of his journey and it was still running great.

I think it doesn't matter how you service it, as long as it has oil, it will last nearly forever.

I have a Vino 125 with 7k miles on it right now. Ive used Mobil 1 20w-50 V-twin and 5w-40 Turbo diesel truck since new, but I recently switched to Valvoline VR1 syn 20w-50. I plan on it running forever. I do 2k OCI's.

Your liquid cooled honda is a little different, but I would still run a slightly thicker oil than a 0w-30. They get decently hot.

 

[RC46_Rider]

Hi.... mean't to mention this in first post. Since that is a liquid cooled engine, you absolutely DO need to change the coolant now and then..... If you really desire long term ownership, I would not go over 3 years on coolant changes.

 

[boraticus]

"I would not go over 3 years on coolant changes."

Why?

Today's coolants are made to last a very long time. I've got a Kubota diesel engine on my power plant at camp. It's going on 30 years old. I've changed the coolant once and the reason I did that was because I had pulled the radiator off to clean bugs off of the exterior and decided to refresh the coolant. It had twenty years on it and still looked like new. It was still obviously doing it's job. The thing sits all winter in temps down to 40 below.

I have a lot of other machines (ATVs (2), Motorcycles (2), automobiles (2) that are liquid cooled and they also are running original coolant. Maybe I'm flirting with disaster but, I kind of doubt it.

 

[Honda_Fan]

Originally Posted By: RC46_Rider
Since that is a liquid cooled engine, you absolutely DO need to change the coolant now and then.


Yes, you're absolutely correct. Manual recommends every 2 years. I bought it in November of '09, so this summer or fall i'll change it out. Boraticus is correct on newer coolants lasting much longer than in the days of old, but it only holds less than a quart so i'm not going to break the bank on this one either.

Rear end gear oil has been changed a couple of times, recommended every 5000 miles in the manual. With my 1000 mile OCI's i've been changing the gear oil every other OCI (2000 miles). Of ocurse i'm running Mobil 1 75w90 in it.

I thought about shortening the OCI to 750 miles, but the oil looks so good when it comes out, I hate to waste it. Boraticus is right on another point - Honda engines. Back in the day my cousins and I had 110 & 185 3-wheelers. Rode the heck out of them, never maintained them, only added oil if we had to, etc. and they never quit. I'm not sure if the newer Honda engines are built to the same quality/durability specs as they were in the days of old, but I don't want to risk it either.

I've also thought about switching to T6 in the summer months, but the jury is still out on that one. It is a great oil though, and still a 5 on cold start.

 

[Robenstein]

I know I saw a video article on the 10 best motorcycles of all time. The Honda Cub 50 was the number one. They delivered pizzas on it, and they had used deep fryer oil in the sump. They tried to kill it by overloading it, running fryer oil in it, and had to throw it off a building to kill it.

Id run Rotella T5 10w30 in it and call it good.

 

[Robenstein]

Sorry they tried to kill a cub 90



but yeah Honda makes a bulletproof small engine.