Navy F/A-18s shot down in friendly-fire incident

I’m always totally amazed that pilots survive a missile hit. @Astro14 , what’s the protocol for a pilot after being shot down (and rescued)?
Well, with any combat rescue, it starts with picking the pilot/WSO up.

In this case, because it was over water, that should have been relatively simple. Vector the helicopter onto the ejection site, gain side of the pilots, put the SAR swimmer in the water, and lift them up into the helicopter.

The next step is a complete medical evaluation.

Primarily we’re looking for injuries, to make sure they’re OK. There will be blood samples and other things taken, because the subsequent step is going to be a mishap investigation, and bloodwork will be part of that investigation. They are looking for Illicit substances, alcohol, signs of fatigue, or even malnourishment, or other medical problems and things of that nature in case those factors may have contributed to this accident.

With the physicians report in hand, and a preliminary feel for what happened, it will be up to the commanding officer that squadron as to how soon that crew can fly. It may be after a somewhat traumatic event like an ejection, that the CEO determines they need a bit of a break. So they may not fly for quite a while.

In my own case, I had an M61 20mm Cannon come apart on a training mission. It threw out shrapnel that took out the left engine.

I was fine, and I landed the airplane just fine, but the airplane was damaged.

So, I had to go down to medical, and they took their 17 tubes of blood, or whatever it was, sure felt like 17 tubes, along with other samples, and a complete interview with the doctor, reviewing my medical history, sleep, and meals for the past 72 hours.

An accident investigation was convened, and the HUD videotape of my flight was taken into custody. I had to interview with the board, give my account of events. It’s not the most fun experience, it’s like standing before grand jury, only without any representation.

The preliminary material investigation on the aircraft, showed that the gun just plain failed. My videotape showed that I was within 1° of delivery/strafe parameters and 5 kn of the briefed air speed on a flight that was conducted in accordance with syllabus objectives, as well as all of our standard operating procedures.

I was flying again two or three days after the mishap.

The board took a while to publish their results, of course, but CO determined that I wasn’t at fault, and put me back on the flight schedule, pending the final determination of the board.

This event was far more traumatic for the crew than mine. They’ll follow a similar process, though, of investigation, testimony, gathering of evidence, and analysis. It’ll be up to the commanding officer to determine the psychological fitness of this crew to return to the air, as well as the doctors to determine their physiological fitness.

Without mo
 
Well, with any combat rescue, it starts with picking the pilot/WSO up.

In this case, because it was over water, that should have been relatively simple. Vector the helicopter onto the ejection site, gain side of the pilots, put the SAR swimmer in the water, and lift them up into the helicopter.

The next step is a complete medical evaluation.

Primarily we’re looking for injuries, to make sure they’re OK. There will be blood samples and other things taken, because the subsequent step is going to be a mishap investigation, and bloodwork will be part of that investigation. They are looking for Illicit substances, alcohol, signs of fatigue, or even malnourishment, or other medical problems and things of that nature in case those factors may have contributed to this accident.

With the physicians report in hand, and a preliminary feel for what happened, it will be up to the commanding officer that squadron as to how soon that crew can fly. It may be after a somewhat traumatic event like an ejection, that the CEO determines they need a bit of a break. So they may not fly for quite a while.

In my own case, I had an M61 20mm Cannon come apart on a training mission. It threw out shrapnel that took out the left engine.

I was fine, and I landed the airplane just fine, but the airplane was damaged.

So, I had to go down to medical, and they took their 17 tubes of blood, or whatever it was, sure felt like 17 tubes, along with other samples, and a complete interview with the doctor, reviewing my medical history, sleep, and meals for the past 72 hours.

An accident investigation was convened, and the HUD videotape of my flight was taken into custody. I had to interview with the board, give my account of events. It’s not the most fun experience, it’s like standing before grand jury, only without any representation.

The preliminary material investigation on the aircraft, showed that the gun just plain failed. My videotape showed that I was within 1° of delivery/strafe parameters and 5 kn of the briefed air speed on a flight that was conducted in accordance with syllabus objectives, as well as all of our standard operating procedures.

I was flying again two or three days after the mishap.

The board took a while to publish their results, of course, but CO determined that I wasn’t at fault, and put me back on the flight schedule, pending the final determination of the board.

This event was far more traumatic for the crew than mine. They’ll follow a similar process, though, of investigation, testimony, gathering of evidence, and analysis. It’ll be up to the commanding officer to determine the psychological fitness of this crew to return to the air, as well as the doctors to determine their physiological fitness.

Without mo
Will the same investigation be performed on those shipboard who are responsible for the weapons system?
 
Will the same investigation be performed on those shipboard who are responsible for the weapons system?
Absolutely. There will be three parallel investigations.

The first is the mishap, or safety, investigation, in which information and testimony is protected, to determine the root cause of the mishap.

The next is the JAG investigation. This one is legal in nature, and you have the right to be represented by counsel. Its focuses on the determination of legal culpability and fault. Willful disregard of procedures, malpractice, that sort of thing.

For the crew, there may be a third investigation, called an FNAEB, or Field naval aviator evaluation board. The purpose of that board is to determine their fitness to fly.

All three boards are allowed to share primary evidence, but not testimony. Accordingly, an aviator could tell the mishap board, the safety board, that he had been drinking because his wife was upset about his girlfriend being pregnant.

As an example.

So, in that case, our intrepid aviator, obviously contributed to the cause of the mishap, but under advice of counsel the aviator doesn’t have to tell that to the JAG investigation.

The JAG would likely figure that out from the toxicology report anyway.

The FNAEB, would be interviewing everyone else in the squadron, and people who knew of this intrepid aviator’s drinking problem, or personal circumstances, would be compelled to testify.

It’s important to note that commanding officers serve at the discretion of their seniors. Meaning, if a senior loses confidence in a commanding officer ability to command, they are removed administratively, and immediately.

This actually happens quite often. It usually makes pretty big headlines in the military related press like military times, or the navy times.

The commanding officer of guided missile cruiser, like USS Gettysburg, is a captain. Not just the captain of a ship, but an 06 in rank, a full bird in the army. The Strike Group Commander, a one or two star admiral, to whom this captain reports, may very well have lost confidence in that commanding officer as a result of this.

There is also the possibility that the fleet commander, a three star, may have lost confidence in the strike group commander, as a result of this.

But all of this speculation, and discussion, is pending the determination of details, the results of those investigations.
 
I’m always totally amazed that pilots survive a missile hit. @Astro14 , what’s the protocol for a pilot after being shot down (and rescued)?

I understand that it's not really like in movies where a plane just goes kaboom in a fireball. It just needs to get close enough to release a lot of schrapnel like a shotgun blast. Especially if sucked into an engine, breaking off a wing, or taking out a control surface.

This image is suppose to represent how a continuous rod warhead works. I don't believe a Standard uses that, but the basic idea is just to throw a lot of stuff out there.

1-Figure1-1.png
 
@Astro14, thanks for the detailed explanation of the process. Do you have confidence that it's all conducted without prejudice or politics or other influences that civilians wouldn't know about? Just wondering because of the state our world these days.

You had 1 incident that put you into this investigative process, is it normal for a military pilot to complete a career without an investigation or is it the nature of the dangerous job to have things go wrong?
 
Will the same investigation be performed on those shipboard who are responsible for the weapons system?
Of course, sorry if that was clear - they will get both the JAG and mishap investigation. Obviously, the FNAEB doesn’t apply.

@Astro14, thanks for the detailed explanation of the process. Do you have confidence that it's all conducted without prejudice or politics or other influences that civilians wouldn't know about? Just wondering because of the state our world these days.

You had 1 incident that put you into this investigative process, is it normal for a military pilot to complete a career without an investigation or is it the nature of the dangerous job to have things go wrong?

I wasn’t the only one to whom things happened. But it was probably fewer than half of the guys I knew that had a safety/mishap board in their record.
Apparently the ship was under attack by Houthi missiles when the plane launched.
So? I mean it, really, so what? “Under attack” never, ever means “blindly fire at everything”. Technological and procedural safeguards are in place to correctly identify friend from foe. That consideration, positive identification, exists at the core of training, tech, procedures and commander’s intent.
 
I understand that it's not really like in movies where a plane just goes kaboom in a fireball. It just needs to get close enough to release a lot of schrapnel like a shotgun blast. Especially if sucked into an engine, breaking off a wing, or taking out a control surface.

This image is suppose to represent how a continuous rod warhead works. I don't believe a Standard uses that, but the basic idea is just to throw a lot of stuff out there.

1-Figure1-1.png
Pretty sure most of the current missiles use blast fragmentation warheads. Expanding rod is older tech, and works well at high altitude with a head on intercept. But the newer ones use blast frag.
 
Apparently the ship was under attack by Houthi missiles when the plane launched.
I know you’re shocked, but let me add that the F/A-18s were likely flying attacks on the missile sites that were shooting at Gettysburg. It’s like shooting your own bodyguard, or a member of your own company/platoon. It’s a terrible mistake.

Imagine taking point, only to have the SAW gunner hit you in the back.

You would not be be very forgiving…
 
//
So? I mean it, really, so what? “Under attack” never, ever means “blindly fire at everything”. Technological and procedural safeguards are in place to correctly identify friend from foe. That consideration, positive identification, exists at the core of training, tech, procedures and commander’s intent.
Not the first case of blue-on-blue, won’t be the last. CENTCOM says it was not the result of enemy action. No doubt the investigation will identify how to prevent such occurrences.

This was the kind of thing that we called in the Army a “Non career enhancing event.” 😉 Glad the crew is OK.
 
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Well, with any combat rescue, it starts with picking the pilot/WSO up.

In this case, because it was over water, that should have been relatively simple. Vector the helicopter onto the ejection site, gain side of the pilots, put the SAR swimmer in the water, and lift them up into the helicopter.

The next step is a complete medical evaluation.

Primarily we’re looking for injuries, to make sure they’re OK. There will be blood samples and other things taken, because the subsequent step is going to be a mishap investigation, and bloodwork will be part of that investigation. They are looking for Illicit substances, alcohol, signs of fatigue, or even malnourishment, or other medical problems and things of that nature in case those factors may have contributed to this accident.

With the physicians report in hand, and a preliminary feel for what happened, it will be up to the commanding officer that squadron as to how soon that crew can fly. It may be after a somewhat traumatic event like an ejection, that the CEO determines they need a bit of a break. So they may not fly for quite a while.

In my own case, I had an M61 20mm Cannon come apart on a training mission. It threw out shrapnel that took out the left engine.

I was fine, and I landed the airplane just fine, but the airplane was damaged.

So, I had to go down to medical, and they took their 17 tubes of blood, or whatever it was, sure felt like 17 tubes, along with other samples, and a complete interview with the doctor, reviewing my medical history, sleep, and meals for the past 72 hours.

An accident investigation was convened, and the HUD videotape of my flight was taken into custody. I had to interview with the board, give my account of events. It’s not the most fun experience, it’s like standing before grand jury, only without any representation.

The preliminary material investigation on the aircraft, showed that the gun just plain failed. My videotape showed that I was within 1° of delivery/strafe parameters and 5 kn of the briefed air speed on a flight that was conducted in accordance with syllabus objectives, as well as all of our standard operating procedures.

I was flying again two or three days after the mishap.

The board took a while to publish their results, of course, but CO determined that I wasn’t at fault, and put me back on the flight schedule, pending the final determination of the board.

This event was far more traumatic for the crew than mine. They’ll follow a similar process, though, of investigation, testimony, gathering of evidence, and analysis. It’ll be up to the commanding officer to determine the psychological fitness of this crew to return to the air, as well as the doctors to determine their physiological fitness.

Without mo

so that liquid courage coming back to bite you in the *** after the thing happens you need the courage for?
 
so that liquid courage coming back to bite you in the *** after the thing happens you need the courage for?
My hypothetical aviator was intended as tongue in cheek, but stranger things have happened…

Get caught with alcohol in your blood after a mishap and your career is done. Finished.

There is no coming back from that, ever.
 
Isn’t the first case of blue-on-blue, won’t be the last. CENTCOM says it was not the result of enemy action.

This was the kind of thing that we called in the Army a “Non career enhancing event.” 😉 Glad the crew is OK.
I completely agree. But Blue on Blue really upsets me in this case, because we have not had a blue on blue from airplane to ship.

It’s always the surface Navy shooting at us, even though we are defending them!
 
Ward Carroll is a USNA grad and flew on F-14’s. He has a popular YouTube aviation channel and here interviews retired Hornet pilot Mark Miller, CPT USN Retired.

They discuss the likely [unofficial] sequence of events. Plenty of jargon, mostly described. Wasn’t aware the USN uses tanker-configured planes like this. They make the point the crew would not have survived the impact so ejecting saved their lives. The second aircraft had their active countermeasures turned off, procedure for landing. They use an advanced IFF system in hostile theaters.

They answer questions from followers. They also make the point that some details of the investigation will be classified and not released to the public. They also announce USS Gettysburg has been relieved as Air Warfare Commander. So Gettysburg CO seems likely to get booted.



CENTCOM Commander is General Mike Kurilla, USA.
 
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