NAPA Gold vs Fram Ultra (efficiency)

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Patman
if they both have the same filtering efficiency, then what benefit is it for me to use the Ultra in this case? (unless I leave it on for two intervals, but I won't do that on the Corvette until the powertrain warranty is up)
Fram Ultra does filter better, as nobody beats its 80% 5 microns figure that I know of. And, the Ultra is wire-backed. Less chance of media breaking loose.
These are small advantages of the Ultra. Is it worth it on a low-cost Corvette? hee-hee

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Does anyone think FRAM will change it's filters construction now that they're under new ownership?

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Patman
if they both have the same filtering efficiency, then what benefit is it for me to use the Ultra in this case? (unless I leave it on for two intervals, but I won't do that on the Corvette until the powertrain warranty is up)
Fram Ultra does filter better, as nobody beats its 80% 5 microns figure that I know of. And, the Ultra is wire-backed. Less chance of media breaking loose.
These are small advantages of the Ultra. Is it worth it on a low-cost Corvette? hee-hee

Nobody could know what filter can filter finer at 5 microns because the 80% at 5 micron claim is nothing more than words that have no data to support it.

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Does anyone think FRAM will change it's filters construction now that they're under new ownership?

Hopefully they decide to start using thread end bypass valves.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Patman
if they both have the same filtering efficiency, then what benefit is it for me to use the Ultra in this case? (unless I leave it on for two intervals, but I won't do that on the Corvette until the powertrain warranty is up)
Fram Ultra does filter better, as nobody beats its 80% 5 microns figure that I know of. And, the Ultra is wire-backed. Less chance of media breaking loose.
These are small advantages of the Ultra. Is it worth it on a low-cost Corvette? hee-hee

Nobody could know what filter can filter finer at 5 microns because the 80% at 5 micron claim is nothing more than words that have no data to support it.


For $1500 you can get an ISO 4548-12 test (SwRI) and find out first hand. I hope you still don't think that PG Harley filter is 99% @ 5 microns.

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Patman
if they both have the same filtering efficiency, then what benefit is it for me to use the Ultra in this case? (unless I leave it on for two intervals, but I won't do that on the Corvette until the powertrain warranty is up)
Fram Ultra does filter better, as nobody beats its 80% 5 microns figure that I know of. And, the Ultra is wire-backed. Less chance of media breaking loose.
These are small advantages of the Ultra. Is it worth it on a low-cost Corvette? hee-hee

Nobody could know what filter can filter finer at 5 microns because the 80% at 5 micron claim is nothing more than words that have no data to support it.


For $1500 you can get an ISO 4548-12 test (SwRI) and find out first hand. I hope you still don't think that PG Harley filter is 99% @ 5 microns.

I haven't seen them remove it from the website. Apparently they aren't worried about your inquires or being sued for stating it in writing.
It's unfortunate that fram won't put their claim on paper. Of course if it's a bogus claim, which I think we all know it is deep down, they are wise not to.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
For $1500 you can get an ISO 4548-12 test (SwRI) and find out first hand. I hope you still don't think that PG Harley filter is 99% @ 5 microns.

I haven't seen them remove it from the website. Apparently they aren't worried about your inquires or being sued for stating it in writing.
It's unfortunate that fram won't put their claim on paper. Of course if it's a bogus claim, which I think we all know it is deep down, they are wise not to.


Their website clearly says 99% @ 25 microns (per ISO 4548-12). So there is no guessing that the "99% @ 5 microns" is totally wrong.

https://www.pgfilters.com/oil-filters/

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Does anyone think FRAM will change it's filters construction now that they're under new ownership?

Hopefully they decide to start using thread end bypass valves.

That would be a good thing. I prefer to use this type of oil filter.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Is it worth it on a low-cost Corvette? hee-hee


Well... it IS known as the poor man's supercar

And Pinoak, as several members have discussed, there are some spurious points of logic (heavier dirt/wear particles magically levitating from the can base to flow through a partially-open bypass) in your arguments for thread end bypass drum thumping, along with the fact that on ANY filter with a thread-end bypass vs. a dome-end, you will get LESS filtering media for a given can size. Knowing all of the good things that are able to occur with more media, and the utter lack of evidence that a dome-end bypass causes any additional harm to an engine whatsoever, along with the certain increased cost of a thread-end bypass, I doubt a company who is obviously focused on increasing profits (Ultras jumped in price within 3 weeks of the new ownership) is going to voluntarily go through a complete engineering redesign to their entire product lineup. Sorry bud.

 

[MetalSlug]

napa wix > fram all day every day.

Napa Platitum full synthetic is onsale right now for $5 !!! cheaper then fram ultra

 

[Dad2leia]

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Does anyone think FRAM will change it's filters construction now that they're under new ownership?

Hopefully they decide to start using thread end bypass valves.

That would be a good thing. I prefer to use this type of oil filter.


Other than the Wix products that I just read about, any other manufacturer using the threaded end bypass? And, forgive my ignorance on this question, but what is the actual benefit to having it placed there versus the other end?

I have tried understanding the pros and cons, but does it make that much of a difference in normal, everyday, severe service driving?

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Does anyone think FRAM will change it's filters construction now that they're under new ownership?

Hopefully they decide to start using thread end bypass valves.

That would be a good thing. I prefer to use this type of oil filter.


Other than the Wix products that I just read about, any other manufacturer using the threaded end bypass? And, forgive my ignorance on this question, but what is the actual benefit to having it placed there versus the other end?

I have tried understanding the pros and cons, but does it make that much of a difference in normal, everyday, severe service driving?



Best pic I can find on the web... the second pic is technically incorrect. But gets the point across I think (hope).

 

[Bill_W]

The patent has just ran out but Baldwin filters had the patent on the base end bypass. It is open for filter design. While I believe it is a better design, it does take a little more space away from the filter media area. OEM is all about perception to the customer and as you can see by Motorcraft Filters they smack you in their advertising about it.

 

[dnewton3]

The bypass location would be a big deal if these were true:
1) your filter was so loaded up that it was constantly in BP; shame on your for running it way too long (FAR, FAR longer than a normal OCI; don't overthink this ...)
2) you run really thick oil and floor the go-pedal 20 seconds after a cold start, in the dead of winter (again - shame on you ....)

But the reality is that filters RARELY ever go into bypass; see Jim Allen's testing. So IMO the location of the BP feature is moot; it's rarely engaged. And the only time there would be a LOT of particulate to be avoided is in condition 1 above. I doubt any BITOGer ever has to rationally fear blinding off his/her filter ... never, ever ...

It's a topic which has merit in theory, but in reality means practically nothing.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Garak

In all seriousness, though, I think Snagglefoot mentioned a potential NAPA Canada filter sale in the promotions area.


Prices at NAPA in Canada are nowhere near as good as the ones in the US though. Even with the exchange rate we can save a lot by buying down there. I'm going to grab one of the NAPA Platinum cartridge filters for my wife's BMW this weekend (I'm popping over the border for my monthly trip) That $5 price tag is too good to pass up considering that filter for her car is usually $18!

 

[Dad2leia]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
The bypass location would be a big deal if these were true:
1) you filter was so loaded up that it was constantly in BP; shame on your for running it way too long (FAR, FAR longer than a normal OCI; don't overthink this ...)
2) you run really thick oil and floor the go-pedal 20 seconds after a cold start, in the dead of winter (again - shame on you ....)

But the reality is that filters RARELY ever go into bypass; see Jim Allen's testing. So IMO the location of the BP feature is moot; it's rarely engaged. And the only time there would be a LOT of particulate to be avoided is in condition 1 above. I doubt any BITOGer ever has to rationally fear blinding off his/her filter ... never, ever ...

It's a topic which has merit in theory, but in reality means practically nothing.



Gotcha! More items to fret over with no real world impact...sounds like my employer...

 

[Dad2leia]

To 69 Turino...thanks for the pics sir!!

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
For $1500 you can get an ISO 4548-12 test (SwRI) and find out first hand. I hope you still don't think that PG Harley filter is 99% @ 5 microns.

I haven't seen them remove it from the website. Apparently they aren't worried about your inquires or being sued for stating it in writing.
It's unfortunate that fram won't put their claim on paper. Of course if it's a bogus claim, which I think we all know it is deep down, they are wise not to.


Their website clearly says 99% @ 25 microns (per ISO 4548-12). So there is no guessing that the "99% @ 5 microns" is totally wrong.

https://www.pgfilters.com/oil-filters/

Of course the filter on the post your referring to isn't a typical premium guard, which I know you know. Dunno why you wanna put on some sort of act for anybody else reading. Maybe you just live to argue or maybe frams new parent company kept you on the payroll even after they canned most of the old marketing team.

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Is it worth it on a low-cost Corvette? hee-hee


Well... it IS known as the poor man's supercar

And Pinoak, as several members have discussed, there are some spurious points of logic (heavier dirt/wear particles magically levitating from the can base to flow through a partially-open bypass) in your arguments for thread end bypass drum thumping, along with the fact that on ANY filter with a thread-end bypass vs. a dome-end, you will get LESS filtering media for a given can size. Knowing all of the good things that are able to occur with more media, and the utter lack of evidence that a dome-end bypass causes any additional harm to an engine whatsoever, along with the certain increased cost of a thread-end bypass, I doubt a company who is obviously focused on increasing profits (Ultras jumped in price within 3 weeks of the new ownership) is going to voluntarily go through a complete engineering redesign to their entire product lineup. Sorry bud.

Says a parrot

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
For $1500 you can get an ISO 4548-12 test (SwRI) and find out first hand. I hope you still don't think that PG Harley filter is 99% @ 5 microns.

I haven't seen them remove it from the website. Apparently they aren't worried about your inquires or being sued for stating it in writing.
It's unfortunate that fram won't put their claim on paper. Of course if it's a bogus claim, which I think we all know it is deep down, they are wise not to.

Their website clearly says 99% @ 25 microns (per ISO 4548-12). So there is no guessing that the "99% @ 5 microns" is totally wrong.

https://www.pgfilters.com/oil-filters/

Of course the filter on the post your referring to isn't a typical premium guard, which I know you know. Dunno why you wanna put on some sort of act for anybody else reading. Maybe you just live to argue or maybe frams new parent company kept you on the payroll even after they canned most of the old marketing team.


Nice tangential response ... just pointing out the facts, and that some people sometimes believe and rely on misinformation (like the "5 micron PG filter"), and also try to claim some information is misinformation even though it comes from a good source.