Name the Fluid and its use

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Originally Posted By: Pontual
I took that and others as: "I'm affraid of being outsmatered"
Oh, those Stribeck graphs, Hahaha
 
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: Pontual
I took that and others as: "I'm affraid of being outsmatered"
Oh, those Stribeck graphs, Hahaha


While you are outsmarting me, I'm really interested in how one would take a 6cst PAO, with a VI of 140, and a KV40 in the low 30s cst, and make it into the quoted fluid with.

How DO you get the KV40 to be reduced by nearly half (from 30 to 18cst), and the VI from 140 to 320 ?

You're only outsmarting anyone if you can tell us how...

Otherwise, you are back in pixie dust and unicorn tears like the magic esters.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: Pontual
I took that and others as: "I'm affraid of being outsmatered"
Oh, those Stribeck graphs, Hahaha


While you are outsmarting me, I'm really interested in how one would take a 6cst PAO, with a VI of 140, and a KV40 in the low 30s cst, and make it into the quoted fluid with.

How DO you get the KV40 to be reduced by nearly half (from 30 to 18cst), and the VI from 140 to 320 ?

You're only outsmarting anyone if you can tell us how...

Otherwise, you are back in pixie dust and unicorn tears like the magic esters.


This an easy challenge ...

First off: Nobody took a 6 cst PAO to start with, in the LDS fluid making, in the first place. You're wrong on that one also.
eek.gif


In this case, without inside information, I'd say they took a even lower than a 4Cst 1-decenoate, hydrogen dimer with a KV40 (maybe a two cst for that KV40) of lower cst and put an long chain alkoxylated alkyl amine on such base PAO. Then they put a VII like polymethylacrilate Viscosity Index Improver, throwing the VI to 320. Got note, or you need a Stribeck curve on this?
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I would recommend you keep your day time "lawyering" job.
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: Pontual
...In this case, without inside information, I'd say they took a even lower than a 4Cst 1-decenoate, hydrogen dimer with a KV40 (maybe a two cst for that KV40) of lower cst and put an long chain alkoxylated alkyl amine on such base PAO. Then they put a VII like polymethylacrilate Viscosity Index Improver, throwing the VI to 320. Got note, or you need a Stribeck curve on this?


Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
...The 1-decenoate, hidrogen dimmer..


They are using a 2.0 cSt PAO, a 1-Decene dimers, hydrogenated PAO, period.

What other base are you referring too???

They use a 2.0 cSt PAO (160C, 320F Flashpoint) with an additive package and bump up both the viscosity and the VI up with the methylacrylate VII.
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Molakule, I said I got you, but Shannow didn't believe me ...

Neither you. I went further to Patent materials to try to bring some mor for the curious ones ...

DECENE / CAS 25339-53-1 / STRUCTURAL FORMULA: CH3-CH=CH-(CH2)8-CH3a

Using decene oligomers as an illustrative example: Bis(cyclopentadienyl)zirconium dichloride/methylaluminoxane (Cp2ZrCl2/MAO) catalyst system is used to oligomerize decene. MAO reacts with Cp2ZrCl2 to form the Cp2Zr+CH3 active species. Cp2Zr+CH3 initiates insertion of decene monomer in between Zr+ and CH3 leading to the formation of the following species.
The CH3 stays at the end of the chain regardless of the insertions of more monomers. After a second insertion of decene monomer, as it becomes.

β-elimination of H to terminate chain growth results in the formation of the double bond on one end of the oligomer chain. Therefore, following chain termination, a decene dimer will have the new structure (before hydrogenation).


The dimer has one t-H.
A decene trimer has a structure like double bond.


The trimer has two t-H's.
When a monomer itself contains t-H's, such as in 4-methyl-1-pentene, TH should be the sum of A*N (contribution of t-H's in the side chain of the oligomer) and N−1.
When an additional hydrogenation step is applied to the oligomer, the double bond at the chain end becomes saturated and the structure of a dimer becomes


and the formula for hydrogenated oligomer becomes:
TH=A*N+N
When hydrogen is used during the oligomerization reaction, the formula is:
TH=A*N+N
In the presence of hydrogen in the oligomerization step, most of the oligomer products are saturated even before an additional hydrogenation step is applied to process the oligomers. β-elimination becomes much less significant. Therefore, a dimer formed under this condition has the following structure:


The dimer has two t-H's.
The trimer has a structure like:


The trimer has three t-H's.
In an embodiment of the invention, the oligomer displays improved oxidative stability and biodegradibility.

Indeed a bunch of stuff, but it didn't mean that I can't get it ...
 
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Quote:
They are using a 2.0 cSt PAO, a 1-Decene dimers, hydrogenated PAO, period.

What other base are you referring too???

They use a 2.0 cSt PAO (160C, 320F Flashpoint) with an additive package and bump up both the viscosity and the VI up with the methylacrylate VII.


They are NOT using any other base oils so quit obfuscating the issue.

They are increasing the bulk viscosity of the total formulation to approx. 6.0 cSt by adding PMA VII's.

They are increasing the Viscosity Index of the total formulation by adding PMA VII's.

Other than the multi-functionional protection package, that is it.

By using a single, low viscosity PAO, they can get excellent low temp performance without having to add PPD's.

By adding the PMA, they can get excellent high temp performance using a single, low viscosity PAO without resorting to higher viscosity PAO's (or polymers) which would screw
shocked2.gif
up the low temp performance.

That's how it's done in lubricant formulating and those are the kinds of tradeoffs one executes during the formulation process.

So I do not see why you continue to swipe patents when that does nothing for your case, whatever that case may be?
confused2.gif
 
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Maybe I have the unwanted onus of always having to be pleasing you here, Molakule. It wasn't ment for you the patent material I scaled. It was to back up my posts. Excuse, me!
 
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Maybe I have the unwanted onus of always having to be pleasing you here, Molakule. It wasn't ment for you the patent material I scaled. It was to back up my posts. Excuse, me!


The patent swipes do not back up your posts.

Your original argument seemed to be that they are using more than one base oil which is incorrect.

You don't have to please anyone, but you should attempt to be technically correct, which you were not.
 
refered to a 2cst ...

Where is viscosity in CAS# ?

MSDS LIST:

•
MSDS PAGE: CAS 68649-11-6 suspension and steering system to maintain level. Check regularly and replenish as needed. Keep container closed after each use to avoid contamination and absorption of moisture. PRECAUTIONS: Contains 1-Decene, dimer hydrogenated (68649-11-6). DO NOT TAKE INTERNALLY. FIRST AID: If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING! Call Poison Control Center, Physician, or Hospital Emergency Room Immediately. If inhaled, move to fresh air. If breathing becomes difficult, get prompt medical attention. For eye contact, flush thoroughly with water for 15 minutes while lifting eyelids and get prompt medical attention. For skin contact, wash thoroughly with soap and water. If irritation persists, get medical attention. STORAGE & HANDLING: Store in a cool...

No viscosities in CAS#, just the substance, harm and medical orientation.

And the CAS #
 
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Originally Posted By: Pontual
refered to a 2cst ...

Where is viscosity in CAS# ?


Holy [censored] for someone who purports to be so smart...

1. Put the CAS into a search engine.
2. Read the first material data sheet that comes up.
 
Originally Posted By: Brad_C
Originally Posted By: Pontual
refered to a 2cst ...

Where is viscosity in CAS# ?


Holy [censored] for someone who purports to be so smart...

1. Put the CAS into a search engine.
2. Read the first material data sheet that comes up.






Maybe Ponty needs a screen shot of someone entering the CAS number at the top of the Google page.
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Originally Posted By: edhackett
Oh! Oh! Let me! Let me!

CAS 68649-11-6

And... if the "2" in SpectraSyn 2 confuses him:

SpectraSyn 2

or

Synfluid

grin.gif


Ed


WRONG, the CAS# for the 1-dimer Decenoate Hydrogen according to the patent material is 25339-53-1 in the not the decene Molakule and Shannow made you in error (since yer @ most googler), take note a do re-search! You search went to Exxon Mobil!!! The Fluid in case is made by TOTAL ELF!!!
And there is no mention to Cst in the apocrifical and not applicable material you presented. nd don't be fool SpectraSyn2 is just an enhanced Spectrasyn, not a 2 Cst spectrasyn. o you got confused or/and sofismatic.

Take note CAS#25339-53-1, not that one for Spectrasyn ...

1-DECENOATE HYDROGEN DIMER (for a 2Cst, if Molakule is certain of the base used) / CAS 25339-53-1 / STRUCTURAL FORMULA: CH3-CH=CH-(CH2)8-CH3a


I see you guys never heard of LDS fluid (made by TOTAL), before this thread ...

Brought to you, by Pontual.
 
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Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Oh! Oh! Let me! Let me!

CAS 68649-11-6

And... if the "2" in SpectraSyn 2 confuses him:

SpectraSyn 2

or

Synfluid

grin.gif


Ed


WRONG, the CAS# for the 1-dimer Decenoate Hydrogen according to the patent material is 25339-53-1 in the not the decene Molakule and Shannow made you in error (since yer @ most googler), take note a do re-search! You search went to Exxon Mobil!!! The Fluid in case is made by TOTAL ELF!!!
And there is no mention to Cst in the apocrifical and not applicable material you presented. nd don't be fool SpectraSyn2 is just an enhanced Spectrasyn, not a 2 Cst spectrasyn. o you got confused or/and sofismatic.

Take note CAS#25339-53-1, not that one for Spectrasyn ...

1-DECENOATE HYDROGEN DIMER (for a 2Cst, if Molakule is certain of the base used) / CAS#25339-53-1 / STRUCTURAL FORMULA: CH3-CH=CH-(CH2)8-CH3a


I see you guys never heard of LDS fluid (made by TOTAL), before this thread ...

Brought to you, by Pontual.


CAS 25339-53-1 is for the chemical Decene. The PAO with CAS 68649-11-6 is a dimer(two molecules) of Decene. The "1" in the name refers to the position of the double bond.

CAS numbers are specific to the compound and have nothing to do with the the manufacturer. Had you looked at the links I provided, the one labeled "Synfluid", would take you to the exact same CAS, same base oil, manufactured by Chevron Phillips.

The link labeled "SpectraSyn 2" takes you to the product data sheet that clearly states the viscosity as 1.7 and Chevron Phillips is a 2 cSt PAO fluid.

Synfluid
SpectraSyn 2


Ed
 
Quote:
I see you guys never heard of LDS fluid (made by TOTAL), before this thread ...


I knew of Total long before you were probably born.

You still haven't a clue.
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The MSDS of the product you linked shows a CAS# for a 2 cSt PAO, as everyone has attempted to explain to you.

As Ed, Shannow, Solarent, and myself have stated before, for the same CAS#, ExxonMobil shows their PAO as a 1.7 cSt and Chevron states it as a 2.0 cSt PAO. In the industry, the PAO kinematic viscosity is stated in a rounded-up number so a 1.7 cSt fluid is stated as a 2.0 cSt fluid, but they are one and the same hydrogenated 1-decene dimer.

Now, give us this patent number that you so strongly stake your argument on, and make sure it is relevant to the discussion.
 
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Now appears that CAS 64***-**-6 is actually 1.7 cst, indeed. As I said from begining LDS could have other cst vis base than 2. That a hunch That's 1.7 Spectrasyn2 is not 2. If Molakule knew about the Fluide LDS, why didn't you chimed in before Jetronic?
 
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